Minions, figuratively speaking

[VBMEW-01]

I've given this matter some thought...

Just as healing surges seem to actually represent adrenaline and stamina, via the concept of a Second Wind, I don't think minions, with their low HP and damage output, are meant to represent an entire monster's full utility limit.

I believe that the concept, like many others, is being taken too literally, and that they are actually supposed to represent faces in an enemy group. I think the we are now supposed to see it in terms of a group of enemies, without poring too hard over their individual stats: powers and effects yes, stats and scores no.

It may be untrue, but it does kind of make sense. The PCs and solo monsters break this mold, as they should, by standing out more. When you throw your orc warlord with his four minions into the fray, I believe the fight centers on the leader, of course, but that the minions aren't actually pathetically weak creatures he has chosen to lead. I think they merely rpresent his soldiers, and that the power of his influence is the real challenge.

Now if this is true I like it. I've always thought that encounters should ride on a themed challenge divided into smaller attributing factors. This seems to be the way they are going with it, and that makes things great for me.


I'm wondering if I am seeing it right, or if mine is not the correct interpretation.
((this is not well formulated, and I'm sure I left a great deal out...I hope ya'll get the gist))

 

[med stud]

In my mind, minions are either very untrained enemies or a narrative tool.

The very untrained are the kind of people that won't stand up in a fight for long; they are ordinary people/kobolds etc that are given weapons and pointed in the right direction.

The narrative tool is something like a martial arts- movie; tons of ninjas are attacking the hero who kicks their asses. Then all ninjas step aside and the real enemy comes along.

 

[Fobok]

Minions would work well for large battles too. (For another cinematic example, look at the movie version of the battle for Helm's Deep in Two Towers, and how the heroes cut down enemies left and right, and the only real threat is in numbers.)

 

[med stud]

Speaking about LotR-movies, there is one scene which I think illustrates minions very well. If you haven't seen the movie yet, don't read the rest of the post.





It's at the end of the first movie. Aragorn and Boromir mows down uruk hai, except for their leader. He is the one waxing Boromir and when Aragorn fights him, he actually has to fight. All uruk hai except the leader in that scene are minions.

 

[Engilbrand]

I'm going with the idea that minions are just nobodies. They don't matter. Even at higher levels, I'll use minions to represent the fact that some of them just aren't right to take on the heroes. After all, the heroes tap into something greater. So do their major enemies. The minions? Not so much.
It will probably be obvious when there are minions in the area. Minions die in one hit. As such, I'll tell the players that they can do whatever they want to a minion up to killing it. If the player wants to break an arm and knock the guy unconscious, he can do it with an attack roll. Sever a limb? Sure. Grab his throat and snap his neck? Absolutely. Anything up to death. I think that this will make it so that players spend more time describing scenes and actions and don't waste all of their time and powers on the nobodies.
Think of most action movies. You have a few guys who are more powerful, and then you have the select few who can go toe to toe with the hero. What about the ton of guys leading up to that that the hero(es) just slaughter? Minions!

 

[Scipio202]

Keith Baker suggested that "minion" status isn't necessarily supposed to imply a physical condition where a pin prick will kill you, but is rather a book keeping, "rules shortcut for interacting with the world" statement. Being an Xth level minion monster may simply mean that their challenge level is so low for an Xth level PC that it's not worth bothering to track the damage, since they're likely to be one-shotted anyways. So a regular 1st level monster wouldn't be a minion for a 1st level PC, but might be one for a 15th level character. Likewise, since higher level minions *are* listed with HPs, a 10th level minion could be used as a "real" monster for a 1st level party.

Since commoners are likely to be minions, if they get in a brawl they can hit each other without autokilling (or auto-knocking out) each other, since they aren't minions with respect to each other. But if the 5th level PCs get involved, we assume for simplicity that they can knock the commoner out easily as soon as they hit them.

 

[Cadfan]

I think higher level minions have hp listings so that the DM can have a frame of reference for adjudicating effects that deal very little damage. Those effects will still be around, and its good to have that available.

Pure speculation: suppose a flask of oil deals 1d8 fire damage to an area, with no modifier for level or thrower since its an ammunition item.

It would be awfully lame for 20th level players to be offing 20th level minions with a flaming oil attack appropriate for first level, just because its more efficient than cutting them down one by one with powerful attacks.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Scipio202: I think you have the right idea. The Vampire Spawn minion has 10 hps. So it is possible to fight minions and not kill them in one hit.

Personally I think Minion hps=1/2 *Level x 1/2 Con: the Vamp fits.
*If this brings level to less than 1, it has only 1 hp and it dies like the Kobold Minion.

 

[keterys]

I'd also be okay with the concept of downgrading monsters to minions deeper in the campaign - after all, those uruk-hai are serious deals to most people, not even close to minions, but when it comes to that battle. Sure.

Ogre minions to throw at your level 15s? Sure. Etc.

 

[keterys]

Don't assume anything from the DDM cards - I believe they represent rules months behind the rest (due to overseas shipping, lead in times, etc)