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Message: <blockquote data-quote="doctorhook" data-source="post: 4867215" data-attributes="member: 58401">I understand that you don't enjoy minions, and that you've got no desire to use them. However, based on your post, I suspect you don't totally understand them, either.As avin pointed out, they aren't identical. They aren't supposed to be identical. Minions represent the guys who just aren't capable of standing up against you.It does exhibit itself dramatically, except that it's not visible. The skills that make you so tough against minions are the same skills that make you PCs, and that make you gain levels. Minion rules wouldn't be appropriate for a game starring 1st-level Commoners, for example, because in that case your characters aren't supposed to be "good" at anything, including combat.No, because in theory, minions as a group still provide a significant threat to characters of the same level. This thread is based upon the desire to ultimately make this more consistently true in practice, as well.This problem solves itself when you vary your usage of minions; using them sparingly or not at all in every other battle can alleviate this "expectation" of minions. Staggering their arrival time, and varying their location is always helpful, as is using a variety of different miniatures/tokens to hide the fact that the stats of each creature is identical. Finally, the DM doesn't have to let the players know that the creatures they're killing are dying from only 1 damage, nor does any source of 1 damage need to kill a minion. (This is another of the major points of discussion regarding making minions more effective.)I can't help you with your opinions. That said, isn't that "metagaming" to be, as a player, so opposed to creatures on such a mechanical basis?As hilarious as this example is, in reality it won't happen in any official 4E products. Why not? Because Balors are already high Epic-level threats, and Elite ones at that; Balors wouldn't become minions until well beyond the maximum level of the game. (It's worth point out that a lot of creatures never become minions, even as the players climb in levels -- dragons, for example. As a general rule, solo creatures never become horde-mooks, regardless of how outclassed they may be.)As an aside, why do minions bother you, but "elite" and "solo" monsters don't? Or do they? Why or why not, if you don't mind me asking?Best regards to you as well! Thanks for being a good sport.</blockquote>

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