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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 4868419" data-attributes="member: 18280">I'm no fan of mob rules, either (even though I like swarms, so take that bias for what it is worth!).  Mob rules come about because of two factors:  (1) individual insignificance of members, and (2) time required to resolve combat.(1) is a function of a steep power curve, ala 3e.  4e, IMHO, took a step in the right direction by offering a less steep curve.  So, while I can easily see ants, wasps, tiny arachnids, or even mice or rats as being individually insignificant, I have a much harder time applying that to goblins, orcs, etc.  Call it a handicap, if you will.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  In this respect, at least, I give preference to minion rules over mob rules.(2) is a function of numbers bloat, combined with combat/character rules that are (literally, as WotC has said as much) designed to extend combat (so you can show off your cool stuff) and reinforce the use of minis (as Scott Rouse was good enough to admit 3e does, and 4e moreso).If you remove these two factors, it is easy enough to run a combat with 30 opponents.  Neither minion nor mob rules are needed, and (IMHO and IME) once these basic problems are removed from a combat system, they add nothing of value.YMMV, of course.RC</blockquote>

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