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<blockquote data-quote="Hejdun" data-source="post: 4385668" data-attributes="member: 839">Except that it's already been stated that players are supposed to know which monsters are minions.Nice straw man.&nbsp; Your argument might make sense if I was actually making some sort of absurd munchkiny argument, like &quot;the rules never mention anything about gravity, therefore it doesn't exist.&quot;Instead I'm just using one, level 1 at-will power as it is intended to be used.&nbsp; I'm not abusing anything at all.&nbsp; Nothing I'm arguing is opposed to the intention of the rules in any way.Except that the highest level minion, the level 26 Lich Vestige, can't even kill a level 1 wizard in one hit.&nbsp; It can do 15 necrotic damage with Shadow Ray, and it will do 5 necrotic damage if the wizard is within 2 squares.&nbsp; That's 20 damage; a wizard with any sort of above average Con will survive that.Why have rules if you're just going to ignore them?&nbsp; Why even bother with the dice, and classes, and powers?I'd argue that you can have the &quot;feel&quot; of minions and ditch about 95% of the absurdity by just having minions have about 10% of the hit points of their non-minion counterparts.&nbsp; It's still a little sketchy, but it's significantly less sketchy than all minions having 1 hp.Perhaps 4e doesn't support simulationism at all.&nbsp; I'd argue that 3.5e does a decent job of simulationism.&nbsp; Then I would argue that switching from 3.5e to 4e results in a net decrease in gaming experience.&nbsp; But that strays away from my main point, which can be summarized as 1 HP minions are unnecessary and silly.If you have to change all the rules for everything else just to make the minion rules &quot;fit,&quot; then perhaps it's the minion rule that needs fixing.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hejdun, post: 4385668, member: 839"] Except that it's already been stated that players are supposed to know which monsters are minions. Nice straw man. Your argument might make sense if I was actually making some sort of absurd munchkiny argument, like "the rules never mention anything about gravity, therefore it doesn't exist." Instead I'm just using one, level 1 at-will power as it is intended to be used. I'm not abusing anything at all. Nothing I'm arguing is opposed to the intention of the rules in any way. Except that the highest level minion, the level 26 Lich Vestige, can't even kill a level 1 wizard in one hit. It can do 15 necrotic damage with Shadow Ray, and it will do 5 necrotic damage if the wizard is within 2 squares. That's 20 damage; a wizard with any sort of above average Con will survive that. Why have rules if you're just going to ignore them? Why even bother with the dice, and classes, and powers? I'd argue that you can have the "feel" of minions and ditch about 95% of the absurdity by just having minions have about 10% of the hit points of their non-minion counterparts. It's still a little sketchy, but it's significantly less sketchy than all minions having 1 hp. Perhaps 4e doesn't support simulationism at all. I'd argue that 3.5e does a decent job of simulationism. Then I would argue that switching from 3.5e to 4e results in a net decrease in gaming experience. But that strays away from my main point, which can be summarized as [B]1 HP minions are unnecessary and silly.[/B] If you have to change all the rules for everything else just to make the minion rules "fit," then perhaps it's the minion rule that needs fixing. [/QUOTE]

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