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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DM_Blake" data-source="post: 4387190" data-attributes="member: 57267">Sure, I grant you this case. A vampire's spawn are supposed to be weaker, and they are usually easy to tell - any seasoned vampire hunter can tell vampire from spawn. But I think that's a small exception to my general theory.  I would not call this minion vs. non-minion.  In your Steven Seagall movies, I see it as a high level fighter (Seagall is certainly paragon, and in many of his movies, could even be borderline epic) enters a room full of low level fighters (mostly all level 1 with a possible few exceptions of level 2, 3, or maybe a rare level 4). He wipes the floor with these guys because their attacks are weak (need a 20 to even hit him, and Seagall has tons of HP and healing surges, while he can hit them with anything but a natural 1).  Because they are low level, they don't have many HP, and Seagall is dishing out lots of damage, so they die or are rendered unconscious (or disabled, as with breaking arms). Even Seagall is known to hit these mooks with combinations, striking them several times to bring down a mook. Other mooks he one-shots, maybe using stuff that 4e might call encounter powers, or maybe just good rolls with his at-wills... Then he gets upstairs and finds the boss, and the boss' trusted henchmen, and these guys are higher level. High enough level to make a fight out of it. They damage Seagall, and he often has to damge them multiple times to kill them. But here's where it gets into Minion Land - Seagall can one-shot some of these high-level henchmen, and often does. Especially in those movies where he uses guns or blades.  The difference? Some of the bad guys in the upstairs floor are high level fighters, some are high level minions. Which all fits into my theory outlined in my previous posts.  Yes, the same as I just oulined here.   I disagree. Among their own kind, a kobold minion may be a little weaker than a kobold specialist, but that's only a matter of training. As for their HP, they are both kobolds. If a kobold minion picks a fight with a kobold non-minion, they will be hacking and swinging and wrestling and probably even biting each other bloody, until one gives up or dies (or the other kobolds break it up). Maybe that non-minion has some special training that makes him more deadly in the fight, gives him an edge, but otherwise they are virtually identical. Until the PCs bust into their lair and one-shot the minions and have to three- or four-shot the non-minions.   Nah, just really low level bad guys. If you or I broke into that bar and picked a fight, we probably wouldn't one-shot any of them, and would get our butts handed to us right quick. (You're not Steven Seagall, or Jet Li, or some other super tough martial artist guy are you? If you are, then you might beat up that bar room of low-level guys too. I still wouldn't).  As I said above, these are the high level guys that put up a fight, but some of them might still be minions. These guys, even the minions, can hit Seagall. They can hurt him. They often do. (Well, Seagall doesn't get hurt as much as Bruce Willis, aka John McClane, but sometimes he gets hurt). Seagall kills/disables some of these guys quickly, in one or two shots (high level minions), but others take a long protracted fight scene, many blows exchanged, blood flowing on both sides, until eventually Seagall prevails (high level non-minions). It all fits perfectly into my minion-world-view.</blockquote>

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