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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Switchback" data-source="post: 4387347" data-attributes="member: 69793">If you have read the thread you know this is not true. Or else Vampire Spawn do not exist in the world. Only Vampire Lords exist. Because they are obviously not the same thing with different HP. Likewise Legion Devils and Angels, etc. Page 4 of the MM makes it very clear where a monsters name goes in a stat block and that it represents a real unique creature in the game world. If Vampire Spawn do exist in your world and if they have 1 HP in combat, then yes, they are are monsters in and of themselves. They are also minions.   If you give them more than 1 HP, that means you have house ruled minions to be something other than the rules say.    When it is said that minions are a rules abstraction, They are likely referring to the mechanic of their HP being fungible and that they only have 1 HP in combat with players.  If it were not, the MM would not have gone and created specific lore for Minions that do not exist in a Standard form of the same type.It should also be noted that in the Monster Manual glossary they did not carry over the line about them being an abstraction. Probably to dampen down further chances of confusion.You might not think Minions are justified, but they are here in 4e nonetheless. If it makes it any easier to understand, I would think of Minions in my head as actually having some small number of HP as the Devs originally wished them to. Perhaps 1* their level, but which simply get ignored for bookkeeping reasons in combat. But keeping this in mind allows you to understand that a minion would not be killed in a combat with a cat, no matter how lucky the cat was.</blockquote>

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