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<blockquote data-quote="spotmarkedx" data-source="post: 4391830" data-attributes="member: 71152">You know, there were three main points presented in the arguement that you quoted.1&gt; It is possible to have an attack that does 0 damage such as, say, the claw of a common housecat.2&gt; There are no housecat rules in the MM.3&gt; The DMG guidelines specifically discuss encounter creation rules, and talk about when to use minions.&nbsp; Here, we find that you should not see level 20 minions as a 1st level party (etc etc)&nbsp;I will agree that #2 is weak.&nbsp; Just because there aren't any rules does not mean we should disregard a situation that could come up in play (though I'm honestly a bit confused as to how it would come up in play, and why there are actual attack rolls being made.)&nbsp;However, points 1 &amp; 3 were sidestepped here.&nbsp; Housecat can do 0 damage to the minion.&nbsp; The minion survives, no matter how lucky the cat is.&nbsp; As for the level 1 wizard vs. legion devil, this is a pretty contrived situation that is advised against if you actually read how to make an encounter.&nbsp; However, if it is necessary for you to figure out what happens if your PC party attacks a single Legion Devil by itself (or an isolated small group), it seems pretty easy - just reverse the rules for minionizing a monster.&nbsp; You'd probably be looking at some soldiers of about half the level.&nbsp;Your dispute with item #2 is about the same as my support of #3.&nbsp; There are some situations that the game is not necessarily set up to immediatly deal with.&nbsp; Legion Devils are supposed to be part of a larger devil army.&nbsp; What happens when you catch a few of them isolated?&nbsp; Same thing that happens when you find yourself needing the combat stats of a housecat.&nbsp; The DM looks at the available tools and makes something up that is reasonable.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="spotmarkedx, post: 4391830, member: 71152"] You know, there were three main points presented in the arguement that you quoted. 1> It is possible to have an attack that does 0 damage such as, say, the claw of a common housecat. 2> There are no housecat rules in the MM. 3> The DMG guidelines specifically discuss encounter creation rules, and talk about when to use minions. Here, we find that you should not see level 20 minions as a 1st level party (etc etc) I will agree that #2 is weak. Just because there aren't any rules does not mean we should disregard a situation that could come up in play (though I'm honestly a bit confused as to how it [i]would[/i] come up in play, and why there are actual attack rolls being made.) However, points 1 & 3 were sidestepped here. Housecat can do 0 damage to the minion. The minion survives, no matter how lucky the cat is. As for the level 1 wizard vs. legion devil, this is a pretty contrived situation that is advised against if you actually read how to make an encounter. However, if it is necessary for you to figure out what happens if your PC party attacks a single Legion Devil by itself (or an isolated small group), it seems pretty easy - just reverse the rules for minionizing a monster. You'd probably be looking at some soldiers of about half the level. Your dispute with item #2 is about the same as my support of #3. There are some situations that the game is not necessarily set up to immediatly deal with. Legion Devils are supposed to be part of a larger devil army. What happens when you catch a few of them isolated? Same thing that happens when you find yourself needing the combat stats of a housecat. The DM looks at the available tools and makes something up that is reasonable. [/QUOTE]

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