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Message: <blockquote data-quote="buzzard" data-source="post: 1116611" data-attributes="member: 3003">Well common sense dictates that Takedown cannot be a shock and awe effect since the recipient doesn't always know what caliber is being flung at him. The only effects that can knock someone down are:A) Hitting a place that will affect the ability to stand (knee, hip, foot, leg bone). B) The target reacting to being shot, which should require a wound hit. Considering that an elephant gun (.460 Weatherby Magnum) has less momentum transfer than a major league fastball, I have issues with takedown.  The afforementioed shootout in Miami led to the adoption of bigger caliber bullets by almost everyone in law enforcement. Considering that the targets were sitting in a car, I don't think it was about knocking them down.  This interpretation of vitality supports my argument against the Black Talon wounding rules. An isosceles means that I am using a two handed grip. Let me explain the situation of how I was shooting. I was shooting a Sig Sauer P220 in .45 ACP at a target at 7 yards. Each shot was taken as quickly as I could bring the muzzle down from recoil and line up the next shot. This was a five shot group done in probably under five seconds, maybe six. Thus I was not aiming or bracing. Now the Sig does have a ported barrel and a recoil reduction guide rod. I factored these into the calculations based on the recoil rules. My groups doing this were about 3 inches, which is fairly close to as good as I get when I take time to aim (which says nothing good about my shooting).  Also I really doubt that I am inept enough that firing from the hip would send the bullets anywhere but downrange. That might not hit the target, but I will certainly get the direction right and they will hit the backstop. Though point shooting is absolutely something that requires a lot of practice. buzzard</blockquote>

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