Mirror Image vs Cleave

[Shane_Leahy]

I know this has probably already been asked and I have looked at the FAQs and such but I have not found anything.

A fighter with cleave fighting a mage with Mirror Image up. If an image is hit, can the fighter cleave to hit another image or possibly the mage?

And on the same vien, does miss chance apply to mirror images from concealment or other spells? I believe it should and of course my players agree.

Thanks

 

[mikebr99]

Yes, the images are figmants... and can be "cleaved".

And the images look like you... but would not also benefit from all the same defensive spells you have in effect. Mirror Image spells (no pun intended) out exactly what the AC is to hit an image... that is the max protection the images will have.

Mike

 

[Nail]

A fighter with cleave fighting a mage with Mirror Image up. If an image is hit, can the fighter cleave to hit another image or possibly the mage?

Yes, you can cleave off an image.

And on the same vien, does miss chance apply to mirror images from concealment or other spells?

Depends. If the concealment is a spell is on the caster (say, Blur), the spell's effects don't apply to the figment, as the figment is not a valid target for the Blur spell. If the concealment is from darkness, fog, or the like, then yes, the figments benefit from the concealment.

 

[Caliban]

I know this has probably already been asked and I have looked at the FAQs and such but I have not found anything.

A fighter with cleave fighting a mage with Mirror Image up. If an image is hit, can the fighter cleave to hit another image or possibly the mage?

And on the same vien, does miss chance apply to mirror images from concealment or other spells? I believe it should and of course my players agree.

Thanks

There is much debate on this. The FAQ currently says yes to both your questions, for what it's worth.

 

[Nail]

There is much debate on this. The FAQ currently says yes to both your questions, for what it's worth.

True! I was remiss for not mentioning that.

 

[frankthedm]

The image is not a creature and the image is destroyed when struck. The cleave is trigged by dealing a creature enough HP damage to make it drop. Neither condition is satisfied by a mirror image’s ‘demise’.

Just because some DM fail to use 1 HD mooks against mid to high level players, does not mean the ruleset should give more to cleave.

 

[starwed]

Even if that were true by the RAW, I'd recommend going with what actually makes sense in this case.

 

[frankthedm]

Even if that were true by the RAW, I'd recommend going with what actually makes sense in this case.

It is true.

Cleave...

If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points or killing it), you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach.

A big problem of allowing cleaving off non creatures is that the Orc barbarian can now cleave through a PC's gear and into them. That great axe slicing though the wizard's wand, then into the wizard actually makes sense too.

 

[Shane_Leahy]

It is true.

Cleave...

If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points or killing it), you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach.

A big problem of allowing cleaving off non creatures is that the Orc barbarian can now cleave through a PC's gear and into them. That great axe slicing though the wizard's wand, then into the wizard actually makes sense too.

And there is a feat that allows you do to that, Combat Brute I believe.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Depends. If the concealment is a spell is on the caster (say, Blur), the spell's effects don't apply to the figment, as the figment is not a valid target for the Blur spell.

The figment does look like the caster, though. So if the caster is blurred then the figment takes on the properties of appearance that the blurred caster has taken. Of course since the figment's appearance is what makes up its composition, or however the best way to say that is, hitting any part of the blurred figment will still make it disappear. But, if the figments look different than the caster, they could be readily ignored by any attacker.