Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="MwaO" data-source="post: 6703455" data-attributes="member: 12749">DefendersDefender in its best scenarios, is a case of using the mark/aura mechanism at the same time that you use the other class powers. So a Striker|Defender tries to do a lot of damage to its marked target. A Leader|Defender helps set up the party Striker to do lots of damage while contributing a mark to protect the Striker. A Controller|Defender is a bit wacky, but usually is an excuse to do as many control powers as possible while distributing marks. Defenders almost always want to get Defender-level defenses - starting AC of 18-20, maybe 17 - this usually means taking the Hybrid Talent on the Defender AC option. Aversion Staff +1(+2 item defense to anyone with an effect from you), if Staffs are an implement, works with marks, so that can be an interesting way to deal with it.Defender|Defender can be an extraordinarily effective Defender, particularly in Heroic, due to its usual ability to easily multi-mark.CavalierSummary:If you're never using Divine Challenge for option access, better than Paladin. But if you want Weakening Challenge in Epic or need Divine Challenge to make your Paragon Path work, Cavalier is not a choice. Also, if you plan to take Channel Divinity over Hybrid Armor and the other class is not a divine class, again, something of a problem.Stats: Str+Cha as a non-hybrid. Could use those stats as a hybrid. Could also go Cha or Str only. Lots of options. Given the lack of Lay on Hands, Wis isn't that valuable usually. Ignore it.Class Features:Good access to Divine sanction. Gets either +4 Init/+2 Healing Surge Value or +1 surge and the ability to use Second Wind as a minor to heal an ally.Implement/Weapon: Has a lot of flexibility with either Holy Symbol or all martial weapons and Devout Protector Expertise is made for them.At-Wills: Decent at-wills, but many builds will be trying to figure out how to avoid ever using them. Virtuous Strike or Ardent Strike are easily the best here. Note that Virtuous Strike is an MBA and the Cavalier's encounter which dazes functions with it - great with Fighter because of that.Hybrid Feat benefits:Plate and Heavy Shield.Interesting Builds: Cavalier|Cha Ranged Striker(Warlock or Sorcerer) - can easily function with Str/Cha, Dex/Cha, or Int/Cha for those.Warning: Loses something compared to Paladin in specifically Epic due to the inability to get Weakening Challenge. Not going to Epic is a big plus for Cavalier. FighterSummary:Fighter isn't really a true hybrid. It desperately needs to pick choices that give it marks outside of using Fighter powers for attacks - if it can do that or simply doesn't care about being a Defender, it turns BlueStats: Mixes well with all stats. Really only cares about having a Strength-score and maybe not even that if it is just using mainly Combat Challenge with another mark option.Class Features: Something of a hit or miss. Your mark is structured around using your fighter powers and Fighters don't have a lot of minor action or interrupt attacks.Weapon: Decent weapon choice, but often doesn't work well with many implementsAt-Wills:With hybrid, not the strongest selection.Hybrid Feat benefits: Solid Armor choice or Tempest Style both have their place. The problem for Fighters focused on being a Defender is that they have to figure out some way to get a decent AC of 17+ or some way of replacing all the hit points they're going to lose.Interesting Builds: Fighter|Seeker. Deft Hurler Style. Fighter|Runepriest. Two wrongs make a right. Mark them - they ignore you and you get to swat them. They attack you and you get bonus damage. Multiclass into another Defender class for additional mark capabilities.Key Compendium Searches: Mark and Primary Stat of other class. Mark and other class.Useful Options: Daring Blade, Battle Chaplain, Warpriest, Avernian Knight, Huntmaster, Blade Bravo, multiclass Defender feats(especially Warden), Kirre's Roar as a power choice. Sentinel Marshal, the theme, gives an encounter long mark. Vigilante theme is fantastic if you focus on melee attacks.Warning: Must have alternate ways of marking for when you don't use Fighter attack powers in a round.PaladinSummary: One of the better Defender options due to Holy Symbol and their armor. If only they had an at-will option that didn't use a melee weapon...Stats: Str+Wis or Cha on its own. Lots of options. Given the lack of Lay on Hands, Wis isn't that valuable. I'd ignore it.Class Features: With the Essentials update amazing. Double mark for Defender|Paladins, free action damage at-will and soft control for Ranged Attacker|Paladins, and functional mark for off-defender Melee Attacker|Paladins.Implement/Weapon: Has a lot of flexibility with either Holy Symbol or all martial weapons, and Devout Protector Expertise is made for them.At-Wills: Decent at-wills, but many builds will be trying to figure out how to avoid ever using them.Hybrid Feat benefits:Plate and Heavy ShieldInteresting Builds: Paladin|Cha Ranged Striker(Warlock or Sorcerer) - can easily function with Str/Cha, Dex/Cha, or Int/Cha for those.Warning: Hybrid Paladin has been updated such that its Divine Challenge does not take an Immediate to punish. Also, the entry in Compendium is wrong — Paladin's mark does not become unusable if you fail to engage the next round. That was part of original Paladin and was errata'd out and hybrid Paladin just mostly referred to original Paladin in PHB 3.SwordmageSummary: Easy mixing with other classes, except for Dex-based. Lots of solid racial choices(Tiefling, Gnome, Changeling, Deva, Human, Genasi, Eladrin). Just wow.Stats: Int. Lots of options. Don't worry about Secondary Stats all that much.Class Features: You get the best parts of SwordmageImplement/Weapon: Weapon as implement plus Int. Still though, options are limited for really making things happen due to Versatile Mastery or sticking to either weapon or implement options.At-Wills: Swordburst is a strong choice no matter what the build.Hybrid Feat benefits: Swordmage Warding is very nice. But many builds have other options, in particular Aversion Staff - as a Mark is an effect, so all your marked targets would therefore grant you +2 item to all defenses...Interesting Builds: Pretty much any build that doesn't have Int as a dump stat. And even some of those. Swordmage|Barbarian as an example. Note that Swordmage|Avenger lets you swing a big Fullblade for the same AC.WardenSummary: Really good at Defender+ builds, Dex or Int Defender|Defender or high Defense/hp strikers or leaders. The big problem is that their mark is only valuable if they spend resources to improve stickiness. And at that point, they benefit more from multi-marking than single-target marking.Stats: Str + Con or Wis. Secondary Stat can be valuable for AC, but Dex/Int can work as well. Emphasis - nothing wrong with say a Str/Dex Fighter|Warden - you still have your Hybrid Talent feat left to pick up Font of Life...Class Features: Assuming you spend the Hybrid feat, you get almost everything of value. Font of Life is an unfortunate sacrifice here, but it isn't as if Wardens could interrupt everyone they marked in the first place...Weapon: Decent weapon optionsAt-Wills: Nothing to see here really. Most characters will be figuring out how to avoid ever using them.Hybrid Feat benefits: Hide+Shield+Con or Wis to AC. Really strong for a lot of builds. Note above - a Str/Dex or Str/Int build that already has Hide+Heavy Shield on the other side can pick up Font of Life instead.Interesting Builds: Lots of Str/Wis or Str/Con melee builds. Some Str/Dex or Str/Int builds, particularly Defender|Defender.Warning: Mark is only valuable if they spend resources to improve stickiness or using a Reach weapon. If you're playing a Warden hybrid, you're either gaining some other ability to easily mark targets or you're dipping Warden for something else. Also, their forms are polymorph powers and go badly with other polymorph powers(aka Druid Wildshape or WereX hybrid options)BattlemindSummary: Con makes it complex to add to another Defender except Paladin. Mixing with some other kind of class ends up with a tough not-defender.Stats: Something of a dead zone. Con/Cha and Con/Wis don't have a lot of direct support for Defenders. Swordmage with Con/Int can work very well, too, especially with Eladrin Teleport capabilities.Class Features: Blurred Step is a huge improvement pre-update. If it weren't for the stat issues, this would be Gold. Example: Opponent shifts away from Fighter|Battlemind. Smacks with Fighter CC, free action shifts towards opponent after Shift and you still get the OA if that's why the creature was shifting away from you...Weapon: Would have been a decent weapon choice, but due to Con/Cha or Con/Wis, most of the options involve bad choices.At-Wills: Two at-wills(eventually) make this blue.Hybrid Feat benefits: The usual blue for Scale+Heavy ShieldInteresting Builds: Paladin|Battlemind. Decent armor right off the bat without needing the hybrid feat. Blurred Step+Paladin Mark gives solid OA+mark potential. Fighter|Battlemind - very strong as long as you don't mind the lack of Battlemind riders or are willing to go Daring Blade.</blockquote>

Verification