Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Misconceptions about 3.5...Answers
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="RFisher" data-source="post: 4619537" data-attributes="member: 3608"><p>That’s one of the easiest to fix. Don’t do it. Either stop at the highest level that still “works” and play for in game rewards like a classic Traveller campaign or just retire the PCs and start a new campaign.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>They said early on “all feats aren’t equal”. This is really an insoluble problem. Two different things aren’t going to be worth the same with different DM or different groups. Besides, the differences are usually along multiple axes. Trying to quantify how much better X is than Y just doesn’t work. Lots of games have tried fine-grain pricing and they still can’t get it right.</p><p></p><p>IMHO, 3e was exactly right to keep it coarse-grained and not worry about it so much.</p><p></p><p>I’m at a loss for how this is really a major problem, because I haven’t seen it. Just because another feat might have been better in some way doesn’t mean that the one you have isn’t good in the way that it was good when you choose it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>IMHO, 3e multiclassing was originally setup to be a suboptimal choice. Which is fine.</p><p></p><p>Perhaps with the right combination of stuff from splatbooks you could built something “too good”, but I haven’t seen it. The single-class, core-only PCs in my group have held there own and were sometimes the ones accused of powergaming.</p><p></p><p>But even if someone does come up with a incredibly good build, that’s good for you. The PCs are all on the same team! (typically) The disparity never gets to Angel Summoner and BMX Boy levels. And even if it did, in the game (rather than the skit) Angel Summoner still has a limited number of things he can do in one round when there are pressures that require more. And such.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, at a basic level, I fully agree with this. One reason I prefer B/X D&D to 3e is that everyone at the table can “master” the B/X rules and quickly.</p><p></p><p>But my experience with 3e was different.</p><p></p><p>For the end of a friend’s campaign, I was invited to play the role of a very powerful NPC against another player playing another very powerful NPC. There is no doubt that his mastery of 3.5 and my lack of mastery was a deciding factor. I don’t know that I would’ve come out on top otherwise, but I know that I simply couldn’t compete because he knew the system better than I did.</p><p></p><p>But that was a very intentional and unusual player-vs-player situation. In every other campaign, I’m not playing against another player. Therefore, my level of system mastery hasn’t really been an issue.</p><p></p><p>Now, if you’ve got overly adversarial attitudes between the the DM and players—or even worse between the players themselves—I could see this being a problem. But I think you’ve still got problems no matter what system you’re playing. The complexity of 3e is just emphasizing them.</p><p></p><p>In most groups, a participant with a higher level of mastery over the system actually helps everyone else so that level of mastery isn’t an issue.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RFisher, post: 4619537, member: 3608"] That’s one of the easiest to fix. Don’t do it. Either stop at the highest level that still “works” and play for in game rewards like a classic Traveller campaign or just retire the PCs and start a new campaign. They said early on “all feats aren’t equal”. This is really an insoluble problem. Two different things aren’t going to be worth the same with different DM or different groups. Besides, the differences are usually along multiple axes. Trying to quantify how much better X is than Y just doesn’t work. Lots of games have tried fine-grain pricing and they still can’t get it right. IMHO, 3e was exactly right to keep it coarse-grained and not worry about it so much. I’m at a loss for how this is really a major problem, because I haven’t seen it. Just because another feat might have been better in some way doesn’t mean that the one you have isn’t good in the way that it was good when you choose it. IMHO, 3e multiclassing was originally setup to be a suboptimal choice. Which is fine. Perhaps with the right combination of stuff from splatbooks you could built something “too good”, but I haven’t seen it. The single-class, core-only PCs in my group have held there own and were sometimes the ones accused of powergaming. But even if someone does come up with a incredibly good build, that’s good for you. The PCs are all on the same team! (typically) The disparity never gets to Angel Summoner and BMX Boy levels. And even if it did, in the game (rather than the skit) Angel Summoner still has a limited number of things he can do in one round when there are pressures that require more. And such. Well, at a basic level, I fully agree with this. One reason I prefer B/X D&D to 3e is that everyone at the table can “master” the B/X rules and quickly. But my experience with 3e was different. For the end of a friend’s campaign, I was invited to play the role of a very powerful NPC against another player playing another very powerful NPC. There is no doubt that his mastery of 3.5 and my lack of mastery was a deciding factor. I don’t know that I would’ve come out on top otherwise, but I know that I simply couldn’t compete because he knew the system better than I did. But that was a very intentional and unusual player-vs-player situation. In every other campaign, I’m not playing against another player. Therefore, my level of system mastery hasn’t really been an issue. Now, if you’ve got overly adversarial attitudes between the the DM and players—or even worse between the players themselves—I could see this being a problem. But I think you’ve still got problems no matter what system you’re playing. The complexity of 3e is just emphasizing them. In most groups, a participant with a higher level of mastery over the system actually helps everyone else so that level of mastery isn’t an issue. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Misconceptions about 3.5...Answers
Top