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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 4619673" data-attributes="member: 22779">Hell, I'd say almost all the 4e &quot;innovations&quot; have appeared SOMEWHERE in 3e books.&nbsp; Very, very few are entirely new.&nbsp; I'm actually at a loss to think of any innovations in 4e that haven't appeared in some form in 3e.Granted some of them have been taken to a much greater extent - at will/encounter/daily powers being available to all classes for example - but, that system certainly appears in 3e.&nbsp; The Binder from Tome of Magic is the clearest example I can think of for that system in 3e.&nbsp; You've got the daily ability to bind X number of vestiges, each of which grant you a suite of at will and encounter powers.I think it's an easy question to answer honestly.&nbsp; &quot;What innovations were created whole cloth for 4e?&quot;&nbsp; Almost none of them.Again, I have no knowledge of the other thread.&nbsp; I agree completely with you and Imaro that somewhere within the rules space of 3e, there is a published solution to just about every issue that exists in 3e.&nbsp; I'm still not seeing anyone claiming anything differently.&nbsp; Hallivar I suppose is closest in that he's talking about access to those rules sets.&nbsp; But, even he is not claiming that the rules don't exist.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 4619673, member: 22779"] Hell, I'd say almost all the 4e "innovations" have appeared SOMEWHERE in 3e books. Very, very few are entirely new. I'm actually at a loss to think of any innovations in 4e that haven't appeared in some form in 3e. Granted some of them have been taken to a much greater extent - at will/encounter/daily powers being available to all classes for example - but, that system certainly appears in 3e. The Binder from Tome of Magic is the clearest example I can think of for that system in 3e. You've got the daily ability to bind X number of vestiges, each of which grant you a suite of at will and encounter powers. I think it's an easy question to answer honestly. "What innovations were created whole cloth for 4e?" Almost none of them. Again, I have no knowledge of the other thread. I agree completely with you and Imaro that somewhere within the rules space of 3e, there is a published solution to just about every issue that exists in 3e. I'm still not seeing anyone claiming anything differently. Hallivar I suppose is closest in that he's talking about access to those rules sets. But, even he is not claiming that the rules don't exist. [/QUOTE]

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