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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 7476937" data-attributes="member: 6801845">If by &quot;in a position to be targeted&quot; you mean in the room that combat was happening then guilty as charged.I did go up thread. You had a pair of dragonborn tanking, with the low level guy behind them.&nbsp; Which gives the low level guy cover for a +2 to AC.&nbsp; The hill giant has a +8 to hit so he's still going to hit that lowly sniper roughly half the time.You keep saying things like somehow the low level PC should (almost) never be a target of an attack.&nbsp; That our PCs died because of poor party tactics or bad DMing even though you have no idea what the PCs or DM did.So here's some scenarios from my my last campaign on some fights I threw at my level 10 party.&nbsp; I'd like to know what tactics could have been invoked to protect a low level character. Let's say the group has a level 1 PC with them, we'll call him Les.&nbsp; I've presented them as if they are sequential and IIRC this is the sequence the group hit them in.&nbsp; First fight is set in the courtyard of a ruined castle.&nbsp; Roughly an open area 40X60.&nbsp; Opponents: Adult Red Dragon (CR 10) being ridden by an Evoker (CR 9).If Les is caught in an AOE of either opponent he's dead even if he makes his save.&nbsp; How does he survive other than not showing up?Second encounter (in caverns beneath the castle) they face a pair of Yochlol (CR 10).&nbsp; These are wide open natural caverns, with the encounter starting in a cave area roughly 20X30 with a 20 ft ceiling.&nbsp; There are&nbsp; a handful of branches going off into the darkness.&nbsp; Yochlol can travel around in mist form, and have spider climb.&nbsp; They can basically target anyone in the party.&nbsp; Their tactics are to web from the shadows and scurry around the area using their spider climb or misty form attacking whoever looks weakest.&nbsp;&nbsp; Les can't be protected from something that can drop down from the ceiling - if Les is hit he's dead even if he makes his save vs poison.Third encounter - they meet the boss.&nbsp; He's in a large cavern, roughly a 100 ft squarish.&nbsp; It's a Nalfashne (CR 13).&nbsp; He flies and has 10 ft reach. Unless the PCs can stop him from flying, there's nothing that stops him from getting to Les.&nbsp; If Les is targetted, he's dead.&nbsp; The stated tactics for the demon is to sail over the front line fighters and attack the weaker enemies hiding in the back.These aren't particularly deadly fights for my party, made sense in context of the story and just the first three encounters for that adventuring &quot;day&quot;.You keep claiming that good tactics will somehow save Les.&nbsp; I don't see how - even if he's 2nd or 3rd level Les is toast.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 7476937, member: 6801845"] If by "in a position to be targeted" you mean in the room that combat was happening then guilty as charged. I did go up thread. You had a pair of dragonborn tanking, with the low level guy behind them. Which gives the low level guy cover for a +2 to AC. The hill giant has a +8 to hit so he's still going to hit that lowly sniper roughly half the time. You keep saying things like somehow the low level PC should (almost) never be a target of an attack. That our PCs died because of poor party tactics or bad DMing even though you have no idea what the PCs or DM did. So here's some scenarios from my my last campaign on some fights I threw at my level 10 party. I'd like to know what tactics could have been invoked to protect a low level character. Let's say the group has a level 1 PC with them, we'll call him Les. I've presented them as if they are sequential and IIRC this is the sequence the group hit them in. First fight is set in the courtyard of a ruined castle. Roughly an open area 40X60. Opponents: Adult Red Dragon (CR 10) being ridden by an Evoker (CR 9). If Les is caught in an AOE of either opponent he's dead even if he makes his save. How does he survive other than not showing up? Second encounter (in caverns beneath the castle) they face a pair of Yochlol (CR 10). These are wide open natural caverns, with the encounter starting in a cave area roughly 20X30 with a 20 ft ceiling. There are a handful of branches going off into the darkness. Yochlol can travel around in mist form, and have spider climb. They can basically target anyone in the party. Their tactics are to web from the shadows and scurry around the area using their spider climb or misty form attacking whoever looks weakest. Les can't be protected from something that can drop down from the ceiling - if Les is hit he's dead even if he makes his save vs poison. Third encounter - they meet the boss. He's in a large cavern, roughly a 100 ft squarish. It's a Nalfashne (CR 13). He flies and has 10 ft reach. Unless the PCs can stop him from flying, there's nothing that stops him from getting to Les. If Les is targetted, he's dead. The stated tactics for the demon is to sail over the front line fighters and attack the weaker enemies hiding in the back. These aren't particularly deadly fights for my party, made sense in context of the story and just the first three encounters for that adventuring "day". You keep claiming that good tactics will somehow save Les. I don't see how - even if he's 2nd or 3rd level Les is toast. [/QUOTE]

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