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<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 7481734" data-attributes="member: 97077"><p>You can jump as far as your Strength and speed allows <em>with certainty</em>, assuming nothing is complicating that effort. The rules suggest you may be able to jump further with some uncertainty. However, ability checks are inextricably tied to a fictional action that the player has declared that the character is attempting, one that has an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence of failure. That is the role of ability checks.</p><p></p><p>Let me try to put it another way: A Strength 15 PC can jump 15 feet. That effort is linked to an approach to a goal with a certain outcome. That is why there is no ability check. A PC cannot jump 20 feet <em>by performing the same fictional action</em> that results in a 15-foot jump. That fictional action must necessarily be <em>some other reasonable approach to the goal of jumping further than normal</em> which, according to the rules, may have an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence of failure. So unless the character is doing something other than the usual effort, he or she has no chance to jump 20 feet. This is likely why the rules call out jumping higher the normal as possible "in some circumstances," for example, suggesting that there is probably something about the situation or environment that allows the attempt. It's not as simple as the player just saying "I make an Athletics jump to jump further than normal." That's not how the game works. The next question the DM need ask is "How do you try to do that?" The swinging platforms, the higher ledge to the lower ledge, the springboard, the ranger tossing the dwarf - these are all reasonable approaches that might be declared by the player and adjudicated by the DM.</p><p></p><p>And again, since it seems to be coming up with increasing frequency, this is not me telling anyone how to play at his or her table. This is just what the rules of the game say when taken as a whole. You may certainly play with players taking over the DM's role and declaring ability checks. In fact, I'd say if you're used to that approach (and it's pretty common so far as I can tell), what I'm saying above probably sounds very strange. And I certainly invite anyone who can explain it more simply than me to try!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="iserith, post: 7481734, member: 97077"] You can jump as far as your Strength and speed allows [I]with certainty[/I], assuming nothing is complicating that effort. The rules suggest you may be able to jump further with some uncertainty. However, ability checks are inextricably tied to a fictional action that the player has declared that the character is attempting, one that has an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence of failure. That is the role of ability checks. Let me try to put it another way: A Strength 15 PC can jump 15 feet. That effort is linked to an approach to a goal with a certain outcome. That is why there is no ability check. A PC cannot jump 20 feet [I]by performing the same fictional action[/I] that results in a 15-foot jump. That fictional action must necessarily be [I]some other reasonable approach to the goal of jumping further than normal[/I] which, according to the rules, may have an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence of failure. So unless the character is doing something other than the usual effort, he or she has no chance to jump 20 feet. This is likely why the rules call out jumping higher the normal as possible "in some circumstances," for example, suggesting that there is probably something about the situation or environment that allows the attempt. It's not as simple as the player just saying "I make an Athletics jump to jump further than normal." That's not how the game works. The next question the DM need ask is "How do you try to do that?" The swinging platforms, the higher ledge to the lower ledge, the springboard, the ranger tossing the dwarf - these are all reasonable approaches that might be declared by the player and adjudicated by the DM. And again, since it seems to be coming up with increasing frequency, this is not me telling anyone how to play at his or her table. This is just what the rules of the game say when taken as a whole. You may certainly play with players taking over the DM's role and declaring ability checks. In fact, I'd say if you're used to that approach (and it's pretty common so far as I can tell), what I'm saying above probably sounds very strange. And I certainly invite anyone who can explain it more simply than me to try! [/QUOTE]
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