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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 7484763" data-attributes="member: 23751"><p>Just look at general athletics section. There was no reason other than deliberate to list only climbing, jumping and swimming. That wording limits athletics RAW to those three things and nothing more. It then goes on to describe things dealing with only those three things. It's not incomplete. The athletics is a complete rule that is limited to only three athletic possibilities. Incomplete would have been wording like, "Your Strength (Athletics) check covers difficult situations you encounter while doing physical activities which include climbing, jumping, or swimming." That chance in wording opens athletics up to be able to cover other things. It's now deliberately written so as to be an incomplete list of what athletics can do.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You now have article links of the designers, podcast audio of the designers, and the DMG telling you that rules are secondary to the DM making rulings. What more do you need?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No. Telling you that you athletics can be used to jump unusually far is vague, not incomplete. There is only one thing it can do there and it tells it to you. That's complete. It's vague, because it doesn't tell you what "unusual" means, or define "far." You've seen the different ways people here are interpreting unusual and the the problems they are having with how far, far is. That's because it's vague, not incomplete. It doesn't list DCs, because the intent of 5e is for the DM to make those up himself. None of the skills have DCs listed. So it does tell you how to determine difficulty.</p><p></p><p>The DC chart is another example of a complete, but vague rule. It gives a chart of numbers, but uses words like "easy," "medium," and "hard." What do those mean exactly? Nobody knows. What you might view as hard, I might view as medium or easy. What I might view as nearly impossible, you might view as only being hard. </p><p></p><p>No. And I'm not sure how you can even be guessing that when I literally wrote this in response to you a few posts ago.</p><p></p><p>This is not correct. I am not arguing that the rules are vague because the DMs can make rulings on them. <strong>Many of the rules are vague, because they are vague. Others are not vague. Whether vague or clear, though, they are all secondary to any and all DM rulings, as the DMG makes clear on page 4.</strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 7484763, member: 23751"] Just look at general athletics section. There was no reason other than deliberate to list only climbing, jumping and swimming. That wording limits athletics RAW to those three things and nothing more. It then goes on to describe things dealing with only those three things. It's not incomplete. The athletics is a complete rule that is limited to only three athletic possibilities. Incomplete would have been wording like, "Your Strength (Athletics) check covers difficult situations you encounter while doing physical activities which include climbing, jumping, or swimming." That chance in wording opens athletics up to be able to cover other things. It's now deliberately written so as to be an incomplete list of what athletics can do. You now have article links of the designers, podcast audio of the designers, and the DMG telling you that rules are secondary to the DM making rulings. What more do you need? No. Telling you that you athletics can be used to jump unusually far is vague, not incomplete. There is only one thing it can do there and it tells it to you. That's complete. It's vague, because it doesn't tell you what "unusual" means, or define "far." You've seen the different ways people here are interpreting unusual and the the problems they are having with how far, far is. That's because it's vague, not incomplete. It doesn't list DCs, because the intent of 5e is for the DM to make those up himself. None of the skills have DCs listed. So it does tell you how to determine difficulty. The DC chart is another example of a complete, but vague rule. It gives a chart of numbers, but uses words like "easy," "medium," and "hard." What do those mean exactly? Nobody knows. What you might view as hard, I might view as medium or easy. What I might view as nearly impossible, you might view as only being hard. No. And I'm not sure how you can even be guessing that when I literally wrote this in response to you a few posts ago. This is not correct. I am not arguing that the rules are vague because the DMs can make rulings on them. [B]Many of the rules are vague, because they are vague. Others are not vague. Whether vague or clear, though, they are all secondary to any and all DM rulings, as the DMG makes clear on page 4.[/B] [/QUOTE]
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