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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bleoberis De Ganis" data-source="post: 4728245" data-attributes="member: 77687">I mention this because most people don't want social skills, like Etiquette, and would rather have no mechanics for roleplaying as was infered by the comment about collaborative story telling. So mentioning and suggesting yet another social mechanic could cause a written kicking I'm not too interested in receiving. Well mechanics in roleplaying are unavoidable. It is just in the DM version the DM is the mechanics and a fairly bad one at that. The examples I gave are extreme, but they exist in all DMs to a certain degree, consciously or unconsciously. It is frustrating to succeed or fail (either one) at something based purely on your relationship with your DM and how good, bad, fair, unfair, or competent he is. I was just saying that if you roleplay well then you get bonuses, if you roleplay badly you get penalties. If the social actions are the equivelant of walking or cooking (automatic success and not worth complicating) then they do not require any mechanics. It was inevitible that some roleplaying definition differences come up when talking about social skills, but people have different play styles and like different things about rpgs which is its greatest strengths. I have nothing against no-mechanic roleplaying at all, I'm not going to tell you how to play.  I only started thinking about the social skills because I do want a good system for social mechanics, purely for times when success and failure, benefit and disaster are an issue. If the players and DM are happy to completely ignore any social mechanics, that's completely fine by me. It is easy to throw away a chunk of mechanics, not so easy to invent a whole system of them yourself. The Etiquette thing has come from the fact that I believe 4th edition is going the right way for the social mechanics, but hasn't quite got there yet. The Etiquette skill (or rather an Upper Class enviroment skill like the Streetwise Lower Class Enviroment Skill) was the first thing that seemed to be missing.</blockquote>

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