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Misty Stepping on my Dragon (critique my ruling)
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<blockquote data-quote="Dragoslav" data-source="post: 6740714" data-attributes="member: 6690267"><p>To expand on this, the optional rule "Climb onto a bigger creature" on DMG page 271 says, "After making any ability checks necessary to get into position and onto the larger creature, the smaller creature uses its action to make a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check. If it wins the contest, the smaller creature successfully moves into the target creature's space and clings to its body."</p><p></p><p>So the order is:</p><p>1) Make a skill check to position yourself in such a way that you can get onto the creature's body (optional)</p><p>2) Succeed on a skill contest in order to stay on once you're there.</p><p></p><p>In most cases, I would say that both steps 1 and 2 would be necessary to climb onto a dragon's back, whether it by by actually climbing up it (Athletics), jumping onto it from a higher position (Acrobatics), or whatever else the player can contrive. In this case, the paladin's player wanted to complete that requirement by spending one of his limited resources, a spell slot, that lets him teleport; this is a creative use of limited resources and should be rewarded with an automatic success for step 1.</p><p></p><p>After the character is positioned onto the creature, though, he still needs to pass part 2 of the process: he has landed on the dragon and needs to either cling onto it or balance himself as the creature reacts to his presence. As such, he needs to beat the dragon in the skill contest, as normal.</p><p></p><p>The optional rule is pretty simple, like all of 5e's mechanics. The initial successful skill contest represents the character fighting to stay alight on the enemy, so he can move freely (albeit at half speed, which is exactly the same as the standard rules for climbing and swimming) on the creature until the creature uses its action to attempt to overtly knock the character off of it.</p><p></p><p>Yes, Misty Step's spell text says that you can't teleport into an occupied space, but that is the "general" rule, and the optional rule for climbing onto bigger creatures (the "specific" rule) supercedes it in this case. Besides, that argument is premised on thinking of the action in terms of squares and minis--thinking of it narratively, the paladin wasn't trying to teleport <em>into</em> the dragon, he was trying to teleport into the empty space above the dragon's back.</p><p></p><p>Since the rule says nothing about whether falling prone knocks you off of the creature, you're free to rule as you see fit regardless of whether you are following the rule to the letter. Personally, I would allow a save to stay on the dragon (still prone, of course), a la the 4e rules for being moved into hazardous terrain. Definitely if the dragon were in flight, and the PC could die from falling damage (some might say that's too generous, but I think it's cinematically dramatic, if done in conjunction with what I'm about to suggest next). However, since the character could just stay prone on the dragon his next round and attack, I would rule that he needs to succeed on another skill contest as per step 2 of the above process, and that he must use his Action to do so. If he gets knocked prone again during this round, he would have to repeat the process, which, while meaning that the PC is repeatedly "wasting" an action to stay aloft, also means that the dragon is wasting Actions or Legendary Actions to dislodge the PC, taking some of the danger away from the PC's allies--a very narratively cool situation. If the PC is knocked prone again while already prone on the dragon, or if the dragon succeeds in dislodging the PC while the PC is prone, then the PC falls off, falling damage be damned.</p><p></p><p>Ultimately, I'll echo the sentiment that, as long as the players had fun and at least one player felt like he got to use his PC's abilities to momentarily take the spotlight and do something awesome, your ruling was fine. DMs, speaking from experience, often get caught up in self-doubt over rulings, but players are most assuredly <em>not</em> sitting there thinking, "Hmm, what a sub-par ruling for this circumstance. Doesn't this guy know anything about game design?" They're too busy worrying about whether there will be enough left of their PC for the party to cast Raise Dead if their PC gets thrown off of the dragon. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dragoslav, post: 6740714, member: 6690267"] To expand on this, the optional rule "Climb onto a bigger creature" on DMG page 271 says, "After making any ability checks necessary to get into position and onto the larger creature, the smaller creature uses its action to make a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check. If it wins the contest, the smaller creature successfully moves into the target creature's space and clings to its body." So the order is: 1) Make a skill check to position yourself in such a way that you can get onto the creature's body (optional) 2) Succeed on a skill contest in order to stay on once you're there. In most cases, I would say that both steps 1 and 2 would be necessary to climb onto a dragon's back, whether it by by actually climbing up it (Athletics), jumping onto it from a higher position (Acrobatics), or whatever else the player can contrive. In this case, the paladin's player wanted to complete that requirement by spending one of his limited resources, a spell slot, that lets him teleport; this is a creative use of limited resources and should be rewarded with an automatic success for step 1. After the character is positioned onto the creature, though, he still needs to pass part 2 of the process: he has landed on the dragon and needs to either cling onto it or balance himself as the creature reacts to his presence. As such, he needs to beat the dragon in the skill contest, as normal. The optional rule is pretty simple, like all of 5e's mechanics. The initial successful skill contest represents the character fighting to stay alight on the enemy, so he can move freely (albeit at half speed, which is exactly the same as the standard rules for climbing and swimming) on the creature until the creature uses its action to attempt to overtly knock the character off of it. Yes, Misty Step's spell text says that you can't teleport into an occupied space, but that is the "general" rule, and the optional rule for climbing onto bigger creatures (the "specific" rule) supercedes it in this case. Besides, that argument is premised on thinking of the action in terms of squares and minis--thinking of it narratively, the paladin wasn't trying to teleport [I]into[/I] the dragon, he was trying to teleport into the empty space above the dragon's back. Since the rule says nothing about whether falling prone knocks you off of the creature, you're free to rule as you see fit regardless of whether you are following the rule to the letter. Personally, I would allow a save to stay on the dragon (still prone, of course), a la the 4e rules for being moved into hazardous terrain. Definitely if the dragon were in flight, and the PC could die from falling damage (some might say that's too generous, but I think it's cinematically dramatic, if done in conjunction with what I'm about to suggest next). However, since the character could just stay prone on the dragon his next round and attack, I would rule that he needs to succeed on another skill contest as per step 2 of the above process, and that he must use his Action to do so. If he gets knocked prone again during this round, he would have to repeat the process, which, while meaning that the PC is repeatedly "wasting" an action to stay aloft, also means that the dragon is wasting Actions or Legendary Actions to dislodge the PC, taking some of the danger away from the PC's allies--a very narratively cool situation. If the PC is knocked prone again while already prone on the dragon, or if the dragon succeeds in dislodging the PC while the PC is prone, then the PC falls off, falling damage be damned. Ultimately, I'll echo the sentiment that, as long as the players had fun and at least one player felt like he got to use his PC's abilities to momentarily take the spotlight and do something awesome, your ruling was fine. DMs, speaking from experience, often get caught up in self-doubt over rulings, but players are most assuredly [I]not[/I] sitting there thinking, "Hmm, what a sub-par ruling for this circumstance. Doesn't this guy know anything about game design?" They're too busy worrying about whether there will be enough left of their PC for the party to cast Raise Dead if their PC gets thrown off of the dragon. :D [/QUOTE]
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