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<blockquote data-quote="staticdrifter" data-source="post: 7496957" data-attributes="member: 6667324">This is not necessarily true. While it may seem so at first glance, a cleric with absolutely no knowledge of lock picking may still aid a rogue who is picking a lock. The cleric may be simply holding a torch so the rogue can see better and thereby facilitate the opening of said lock.The cleric must still make an assist check. If he is successful in his attempt, the rogue may add a +2 to his attempt to open the lock. Since the cleric has no knowledge of what the rogue is doing, or how he's doing it, a Critical success will not provide any additional help from the cleric beyond the +2 for a steady light.If the cleric fails the roll, he does not hold the torch in a position which actually helps the rogue, but neither does it hinder him - no bonus to the rogue's skill check.If, however, the cleric Critically fails his help check, the unfortunate rogue takes a -2 to his ability check due to his getting a bit too much light which hampers his vision, or perhaps the hapless cleric accidentally burns the poor rogue causing him to flinch and bend a lockpick, or worse, cry out in pain and alarm, giving away their presence to whomever, or whatever, lies beyond the locked door.Assist/help checks do not always provide a positive outcome, but you don't have to know what your doing to &quot;lend a hand&quot;.Too often, players see these rolls as one-sided possibilities... if it works, great - if not, no skin off my nose.As a DM, it's your right to take a little skin off them every now and then.In my game, if a player always wants to assist, no matter what, I allow it. But, if the player fails the assist roll 3 times (similar types of assistance), they get a &quot;clumsy&quot; mark in that skill. Until the character raises that skill through training, all future assist rolls of that sort get a -2 penalty to the roll.This tends to keep most of my players from getting help-happy.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="staticdrifter, post: 7496957, member: 6667324"] This is not necessarily true. While it may seem so at first glance, a cleric with absolutely no knowledge of lock picking may still aid a rogue who is picking a lock. The cleric may be simply holding a torch so the rogue can see better and thereby facilitate the opening of said lock. The cleric must still make an assist check. If he is successful in his attempt, the rogue may add a +2 to his attempt to open the lock. Since the cleric has no knowledge of what the rogue is doing, or how he's doing it, a Critical success will not provide any additional help from the cleric beyond the +2 for a steady light. If the cleric fails the roll, he does not hold the torch in a position which actually helps the rogue, but neither does it hinder him - no bonus to the rogue's skill check. If, however, the cleric Critically fails his help check, the unfortunate rogue takes a -2 to his ability check due to his getting a bit too much light which hampers his vision, or perhaps the hapless cleric accidentally burns the poor rogue causing him to flinch and bend a lockpick, or worse, cry out in pain and alarm, giving away their presence to whomever, or whatever, lies beyond the locked door. Assist/help checks do not always provide a positive outcome, but you don't have to know what your doing to "lend a hand". Too often, players see these rolls as one-sided possibilities... if it works, great - if not, no skin off my nose. As a DM, it's your right to take a little skin off them every now and then. In my game, if a player always wants to assist, no matter what, I allow it. But, if the player fails the assist roll 3 times (similar types of assistance), they get a "clumsy" mark in that skill. Until the character raises that skill through training, all future assist rolls of that sort get a -2 penalty to the roll. This tends to keep most of my players from getting help-happy. [/QUOTE]

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