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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Veltharis ap Rylix" data-source="post: 9025191" data-attributes="member: 66357">I think you're missing what I'm going for somewhat.I don't mind some fiends serving evil gods, but I've always liked that there are also large portions of them that very explicitly don't.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Most devils serve the Lords of Nine, and through them Asmodeus - who wasn't necessarily portrayed as a god until 4e, a decision I happen to disagree with.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Most demons serve the various demon lords and demon princes - some of whom were also gods (Lolth, Orcus at some points) and others who weren't.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The yugoloths are famously anti-theistic - the Wasting Tower of Khin-Oin is said to be carved from the spine of the first godling that ever made a deal with them.</li> </ul>The celestial side of the equation has always felt far more tangled up - particularly in Celestia, where it's sometimes hard to tell whether the tome archons of the Celestial Hebdomad are in charge or some nebulous selection of good gods.What I'm proposing is that celestials (archons, guardinals, asuras, whatever replaces the eladrin in Arborea) remain the counterpart of opposing alignment to fiends as a category, but that angels split off into into a third category all their own that isn't explicitly tied to alignment, so that any god can choose to create/call upon angelic servitors, not just the ones that are arbitrarily put in the "Good" bucket for whatever reason. Why shouldn't a CN goddess of love and passion (I think Aphrodite has been stated as such at times) have angelic servants?Celestials and fiends can still occasionally choose to serve a deity, but they originate via the natural processes of the Outer Planes as an expression of alignment.Angels can occasionally choose to abandon their divine patron or fall out of favor and be cast out, but they originate as servants created by a god as expressions of a divinely ordained cause.And that filters down to ardlings, tieflings, and aasimar - ardlings are the descendants of celestials, tieflings are the descendants of fiends, aasimar are the descendants of the divine and their angelic servitors.Unrelated, if you want to drop "Hades" as the name of the pure NE plane of the Great Wheel, I'd say go back to using the Gray Waste - Tartarus is analogous to Carceri.</blockquote>

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