Mixing d20 Modern with Dragonstar

[Apok]

Okay, so after many months of disavowing d20 Modern, I finally decided to break down and buy the main book and I wasn't dissappointed. I love the system and I'm planning to use it to fuel an upcoming Dragonstar campaign.

What I was wondering is if anyone here has used d20 Modern as the base for Dragonstar instead of D&D. Since both are systematically compatible, I don't expect alot of bumps, but it would be nice to hear about any issues or problems had by others so I can look out for them.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

If D20 Modern would have out when I started my Space Experiences Campaign, I might have done it a bit different (probably without nonhuman species) and used D20 Modern.

But now, I am using Dragonstar(based) rules, and don`t use anything from D20 Modern.

I am not sure how good it would mix - the Dragonstar as written assumes powerful wizards and sorcerers, and D20 Modern won`t give you them (highest spell level 5?). On the other hand, the D20 Modern firearm rules (including damage charts) seem to be much better...
Mixing the classes seems to be a bad idea - with the 6 core classes of D20 Modern, you don`t need other core classes (especially none as redundant as barbarian, fighter and ranger).
Maybe as advanced classes, though...

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[NeuroZombie]

If I were to mix the 2, I would go grab the Classically Modern pdf from Merlyns Workshop (free- http://members.lycos.co.uk/merlinsworkshop/ ) adn use it to simulate the Dragonstar classes within the framework of d20 modern.

If you are not familiar with classically modern, it is a fan pdf that turns DnD classes into advanced and prestige classes and work really well.

 

[Kesh]

I'm planning on doing this, actually. The biggest changes:

1) Classes & Skills - I plan on keeping the D&D classes from Dragonstar, while allowing the Advanced Classes from d20M as a form of cheap Prestige Class alternative. Skills from d20M will need to be assigned to the D&D classes.

2) Weapons - Dragonstar's weapons are designed for lethality by D&D standards. I'd swap the D&D 50 HP massive damage rule for the d20M 10+Con bonus massive damage. That means scaling back the damage codes on the Dragonstar weapons a bit, to bring them in line with the d20M equivalents. Dragonstars slug-throwers would be eliminated in favor of d20M's regular guns.

3)Magic & Psionics - With a little adaptation, some of d20M's spells would fit well in Dragonstar. Most are duplicates, but a few are better than their D&D equivalent. Same with the psionic powers from d20M. However, I'd stick with the D&D psionic classes, tweaked for some of the better parts of their d20M equivalents.

As an alternative, I'd allow the option for new characters to start out with a Basic class. It's going to be underpowered compared to one of the D&D classes, though.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but my gaming books are boxed up at the moment, as I'm preparing to move soon.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Massive Damage Threshold is = Con, not 10 + Con mod. Should help tone that lethality down just a little bit.

 

[BlackJaw]

Yes, I think the two could mix well togeather. I'd throw out basicaly all the Dragon star gun rules, and use the d20 modern ones.

Gun Prof. Feats:
Personal Firearms = simple weapons
Advanced Firearms = marital weapons
Exotic is still exotic

Automatic weapon rules in d20 modern, along with the Double Tap and Burst fire feats, etc. are great, so I'd keep those.

I like Dragon star Technical Prof. feat as way of seperating low and high tech characters (D20 modern never thought about that) so I'll keep it. I'm not sure how many of the other d20 modern and dragon star feats I'd keep. In d20 modern, two weapon fighting works with guns/range weapons fine, (not in D&D 3.0) so I'd drop the seperate two-gun feats and merg it with normal two-weapon. I'd definatly skip all the d20 modern kung-fu stuff. its all monks now anyway. I do like the dragonstar mobile shot feat, so that would stay... the problem to avoid here is that most D20 clases give out bonus feats ever other level, where D&D does not... so to convert the d20 modern feats over is to assume that the PCs are still geting a lot of feats... which isn't that true. On the other hand all my favorite D20 modern feats were not on most Bonus feat lists. I'd add most weapon realted feats, espeicaly gun ones, to the Fighter bonus feat list... and that clears that right up. most feats in both books were "skill focus combo" feats that gave +2 bonus to a pair of theme linked or similar skills. "alterness" knockoffs really. Also because subdual damage works diffrently in d20 modern, all those knock out feats are useless in D&D and Dragonstar.

as for the d20 modern massive damage rule... no thanks, not for me. sure it works in d20 modern, but d20 modern doesn't have D&D monsters like dragon star does. those suckers can drop more then 12 points of damage all at once easy. (average con score in the groups I run). so in Dragon star setting, I'll use hte d20 modern guns, (better then most bow weapons!) but drop the d20 modern "one shot one kill" massive damage setup.

Skill wise I like the dragonstar meathod. almost everything is the same, and technology is done via the "use device" skill. simple, easy.

The guns in dragon star are to all over the place for my taste. I'd probably take the basic concepts of the d20 modern ones and then bring it over into dragon star style. small hand guns are 2d6, medium ones are 2d8. (blasters are lightning damage, lasers are fire, screamers are sonic, etc). all that kind of stuff. then I'd sit down and make a list of basic guns that fit that mold. Most the ones in d20 modern are designed to have the flavor of the variations between real world weapons, but the D&D and Dragon star simplicity is just fine. You got your light blaster pistol (2d6 damage, more shots on a mini-cell) your heavy blaster pistol (fewer shots 2d8 damage, medium sized) and maybe even an auto-blaster pistol (autofire option, 2d6 damage, medium sized... maybe even 3 shot burst mode!) do the same for all the types. remember screamers (sonic damage) are a little off from the other damage types. I never liked the double ammo for the lead spitters in dragon star (bullets and an energy source means double ammo tracking = more hassel and less fun) so I'd keep lead spitters as self contained ammo/propellant, and just make it a plasma mix etc to make sure it feels high tech and all. I do like that nearly all energy guns use the same mini-cell. I'd also go ahead and make only 4 types of bullets. (small, medium, large, shotgun)

Of cousre I'll use the dragon star price meathod. Don't get me wrong, I love the d20 modern wealth score system, but it doesn't have the D&D feel... but credits and gold and things with prices not price DCs, that's what I want. the new gusn I just created will use prices based of the Dragonstar guns. In a Dragonstar setting I don't have to let "credit cards" and other modern forms of buying stuff without money exist, so the d20 modern wealth system isn't needed really... and I don't want to convert all of dragon start to DCs, and assign bonuses to the standard core classes. Let alone wealth DCs to expensive spell componenets or magic item creation rules!

I'm note sure about the dragon star armors, but I think they'd be ok. the D20 modern ones aren't high tech enough, and D20 modern has an inherent character armor class bonus for classes that I don't want to mess with adding to D&D.

Spells: yah most were converted from D&D to d20 modern. No need to convert 98% of them back to D&D. I think Urban Arcana has some other newer ones that would be worth doing so though.

Advanced classes: I think I'd leave most of them out of Dragonstar. most advanced classes fit niches already occupied by D&D classes. Why have a solider advanced class when there is the fighter core class? also some are based on feature no longer in my "conversion." Example: the feild scientist can "Mcgiuver" just about any device by making Inteligence checks againt the device's pruchase DC. Other classes are based of popularity, and all are ballenced with a Defensive bonus, welath bonus, and reputation bonus built in that D&D and Dragon star doesn't have.

Nope, I'd leave just about all the "advanced classes" out.

 

[Salcor]

Apok,
I would sugges to look at the Urban Arcana sourcebook for D20 Modern. It actually transfers a lot of the base DnD stuff to D20 Modern. Most of the basic classes are transfered to advanced classes.


Salcor

 

[Kesh]

I will pick up Urban Arcana, but not for my Dragonstar campaign. I think I'll stick with the core D&D classes, and not the Advanced ones... I'd like to stick with the feeling of "D&D in Space."

 

[Voneth]

There should be a d20Modern to DnD 3.5 conversion page in the upcoming Gamma World book by S&S. It comes out in October.

 

[Malicene]

Advanced Firearms = marital weapons

Don't want to know how you treat your wife BlackJaw ! LOL

D20 modern character are a little bit less powerful than other d20, the sub class are ok but , a 5-6 level character isn't strong as a 5-6th Dnd or Dragonstar.

Tried a SciFI based on d20 modern this week-end and finished with a TPK !!!

so by now we are trying to mix D20Modern + some mecha rules from Poly. (not fixed by now).
by the way we are trying to do a d20 SubModern, in a Steam punk setting based on D20 Modern (not fixed at all)