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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
mixing manufactured and natural weapons
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<blockquote data-quote="Patryn of Elvenshae" data-source="post: 2444659" data-attributes="member: 23094"><p>They could be read as such, yes.</p><p></p><p>The Arms of Plenty spell grants a primary natural attack.</p><p></p><p>Any natural attack may be mixed with manufactured weapons (barring those which depend upon a hand that's currently holding something). When this is done, there's no penalty on the manufactured weapons' attacks.</p><p></p><p>There remains, however, a -5 penalty on the attack rolls with the natural weapons, because they are treated as secondary natural weapons when mixed with manufactured weapons.</p><p></p><p>So, yes, there's no penalty on your manufactured attacks if you use the spell, but there is a penalty on your claw attacks.</p><p></p><p>Does that make sense? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ah, my specialty! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A greataxe is a manufactured weapon. Accordingly, he gets the following options:</p><p></p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Man. Weapon: Greataxe +5 1d12+X</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Nat. Weapon: 2 Claws +5 XdX+X, 2 Tentacles +5 XdX+X</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Mixed Weapons: Greataxe +5 Xd12+X, 2 Claws +0 XdX+.5X, 2 Tentacles +0 XdX+.5X</li> </ol><p></p><p>Note that, if he's just attacking with Nat. Weapons, they're all considered primary. If he's mixing them, then the GA is primary, and all Nat. Weapons are treated as secondary.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I assume you mean two attacks when flurrying (and I'll assume at -2 / -2)?</p><p></p><p>He therefore gets the following options:</p><p></p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Man. Weapon: Unarmed Strike +5 1d6+X</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Nat. Weapon: 2 Claws +5 XdX+X, 2 Tentacles +5 XdX+X</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Mixed Weapons: Unarmed Strike +5 Xd12+X, 2 Claws +0 XdX+.5X, 2 Tentacles +0 XdX+.5X</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Flurry: Unarmed Strike +3 / +3 1d6+X</li> </ol><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>When grappling, things don't work like normal. Keep in mind that you cannot gain multiple attacks with a natural weapon due to a high BAB. Note, also, that "Attack your Opponent" uses one attack based off of your BAB.</p><p></p><p>Accordingly, when grappled, you have the option of using any single natural weapon, or a light weapon, or an unarmed strike - and you only get one, since your BAB isn't high enough to get more. So:</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Man. Weapon: Unarmed Strike +1 1d3+X</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Nat. Weapon 1: Claw +1 1dX+X</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Nat. Weapon 2: Tentacle +1 1dX+X</li> </ul><p></p><p>[Edit: Also, remember the -4 penalty to attacks when your are attacking someone who's grappling you.]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not sure what you mean by that - do they have reach, or something?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If he has the Multiattack feat, it normally applies to none of his natural weapons, because they are all primary natural weapons. <strong>However</strong> as soon as he decides to mix in manufactured weapons, his natural attacks become secondary, and the feat kicks in, reducing the penalty for *all* of his natural attacks to -2.</p><p></p><p>Here's the interesting thing about the Haste spell:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So, basically, Haste doesn't apply to anyone striking unarmed or with natural weapons. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>That's probably silly, though, so we'll assume that what they really meant was "one additional attack per round with any weapon you've got."</p><p></p><p>In which case, you get to pick any <strong>single</strong> weapon in any of the full attack sequences above and make a single additional attack at the highest bonus. Note that, for all intents and purposes, "2 Claws" are two distinct weapons.</p><p></p><p>Does that answer your question?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Patryn of Elvenshae, post: 2444659, member: 23094"] They could be read as such, yes. The Arms of Plenty spell grants a primary natural attack. Any natural attack may be mixed with manufactured weapons (barring those which depend upon a hand that's currently holding something). When this is done, there's no penalty on the manufactured weapons' attacks. There remains, however, a -5 penalty on the attack rolls with the natural weapons, because they are treated as secondary natural weapons when mixed with manufactured weapons. So, yes, there's no penalty on your manufactured attacks if you use the spell, but there is a penalty on your claw attacks. Does that make sense? :) Ah, my specialty! :) A greataxe is a manufactured weapon. Accordingly, he gets the following options: [list=1] [*]Man. Weapon: Greataxe +5 1d12+X [*]Nat. Weapon: 2 Claws +5 XdX+X, 2 Tentacles +5 XdX+X [*]Mixed Weapons: Greataxe +5 Xd12+X, 2 Claws +0 XdX+.5X, 2 Tentacles +0 XdX+.5X [/list] Note that, if he's just attacking with Nat. Weapons, they're all considered primary. If he's mixing them, then the GA is primary, and all Nat. Weapons are treated as secondary. I assume you mean two attacks when flurrying (and I'll assume at -2 / -2)? He therefore gets the following options: [list=1] [*]Man. Weapon: Unarmed Strike +5 1d6+X [*]Nat. Weapon: 2 Claws +5 XdX+X, 2 Tentacles +5 XdX+X [*]Mixed Weapons: Unarmed Strike +5 Xd12+X, 2 Claws +0 XdX+.5X, 2 Tentacles +0 XdX+.5X [*]Flurry: Unarmed Strike +3 / +3 1d6+X [/list] When grappling, things don't work like normal. Keep in mind that you cannot gain multiple attacks with a natural weapon due to a high BAB. Note, also, that "Attack your Opponent" uses one attack based off of your BAB. Accordingly, when grappled, you have the option of using any single natural weapon, or a light weapon, or an unarmed strike - and you only get one, since your BAB isn't high enough to get more. So: [list] [*]Man. Weapon: Unarmed Strike +1 1d3+X [*]Nat. Weapon 1: Claw +1 1dX+X [*]Nat. Weapon 2: Tentacle +1 1dX+X[/list] [Edit: Also, remember the -4 penalty to attacks when your are attacking someone who's grappling you.] I'm not sure what you mean by that - do they have reach, or something? If he has the Multiattack feat, it normally applies to none of his natural weapons, because they are all primary natural weapons. [b]However[/b] as soon as he decides to mix in manufactured weapons, his natural attacks become secondary, and the feat kicks in, reducing the penalty for *all* of his natural attacks to -2. Here's the interesting thing about the Haste spell: So, basically, Haste doesn't apply to anyone striking unarmed or with natural weapons. ;) That's probably silly, though, so we'll assume that what they really meant was "one additional attack per round with any weapon you've got." In which case, you get to pick any [b]single[/b] weapon in any of the full attack sequences above and make a single additional attack at the highest bonus. Note that, for all intents and purposes, "2 Claws" are two distinct weapons. Does that answer your question? [/QUOTE]
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