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<blockquote data-quote="Riley37" data-source="post: 6461346" data-attributes="member: 6786839">I'm seeing this mostly as thread about whether spellcasters are over-nerfed. From a different point of view:In terms of world-building, this list seems totally appropriate to me. The Dragon Turtle and Purple Worm are high-CR mainly because they are *big*, and also because they have special movement (swimming, burrowing). The Kraken likewise - it has Freedom of Movement, but that's not a stops-all-spells defense. Dragons, demons, golems, and so forth, are high-CR largely *because of their innate magic*. When a critter is magic incarnate, when it's built of Weave as much as built of matter, then heck yes, it should not be easily stopped by Hold Monster and so forth.If one of your early Actions is casting a high-level Concentration buff on a fighter ally, and the next six to twenty actions are casting other spells which don't conflict with Concentration, I think that's not a horrible ratio of support to direct action; and you're using magic where it can be extra effective, rather than trying a brute force &quot;My magic offense beats your magic defense!&quot; against a foe who is *more innately/essentially magical* than you are.If you want a high-CR encounter which is easily handled by high-level magic, then toss a Swarm of T-Rex at the party, and the wizard can say &quot;I got this&quot;. She'll cast Meteor Swarm, and the T-rexes will become a meatier swarm. (BBQ T-rex - them's good eatin'!)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Riley37, post: 6461346, member: 6786839"] I'm seeing this mostly as thread about whether spellcasters are over-nerfed. From a different point of view: In terms of world-building, this list seems totally appropriate to me. The Dragon Turtle and Purple Worm are high-CR mainly because they are *big*, and also because they have special movement (swimming, burrowing). The Kraken likewise - it has Freedom of Movement, but that's not a stops-all-spells defense. Dragons, demons, golems, and so forth, are high-CR largely *because of their innate magic*. When a critter is magic incarnate, when it's built of Weave as much as built of matter, then heck yes, it should not be easily stopped by Hold Monster and so forth. If one of your early Actions is casting a high-level Concentration buff on a fighter ally, and the next six to twenty actions are casting other spells which don't conflict with Concentration, I think that's not a horrible ratio of support to direct action; and you're using magic where it can be extra effective, rather than trying a brute force "My magic offense beats your magic defense!" against a foe who is *more innately/essentially magical* than you are. If you want a high-CR encounter which is easily handled by high-level magic, then toss a Swarm of T-Rex at the party, and the wizard can say "I got this". She'll cast Meteor Swarm, and the T-rexes will become a meatier swarm. (BBQ T-rex - them's good eatin'!) [/QUOTE]

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