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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Felon" data-source="post: 1799436" data-attributes="member: 8158">The answer seems pretty clear-cut. It's OTT. Such is the nature of this board. The rule of thumb is "defend designers, blame players and DM's". You won't be able to get away with saying a class or feat is perhaps poorly-designed without folks crawling out of the woodwork to defend it. Now, if you were grousing about players or DM's who quote movie lines too much, you'd get 800 pages of rousing support like it was a major crisis. Welcome to ENWorld.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  OK, so in addition to dual progression, the TN also still has the Necromantic Potence ability that allows him to combine all his divine and arcane levels when casting necromantic spells? And he gets bonus necromantic spell-like abilities up all the way up to 9th-level? OK, this is getting absurd really quickly. Anywhere where the TN starts to look like it's coming up short, we can quickly find where the design compensates to caulk up the hole to make sure the TN doesn't come up too short, if at all. "He can't do as much damage with cone of cold...oh wait, yes he can...well, he can't do as much damage with horrid wilting...he comes up a dice short...see, it's fine? And hey, even if you co-opt every ability in the world, remember you only get to use one per round! Foolproof game design saves the day again!"Yeah, right. Good arguing there, guys.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /> Incidentally, all this busines about max spellcasting levels for MT's and TN's being 15/15 or 17/17 or whatever seems to overlook the fact that 3.5e now provides core rules for epic progressions that allow a class to have levels that go beyond those listed in the class progression table. The DMG states the epic MT as being able to keep stacking levels on and on forever. Now, if someone who has Libris Mortis can verify whether or not the TN's class co-opting class feature meets the criterion that it "accumulates as part of a repeated pattern", then it should increase pass 14th level as well, thereby allowing the TN access to hit 20/20.</blockquote>

Verification