Silverblade The Ench
First Post
I hear a lot of disparaging comments linking 4th ed to MMORPGs, well, frankly a lot of D&D players should learn from MMORPGs! 
I've played D&D for over 20 years, played everquest for 7 years.
I'm nearly always a DM, and in EQ, I was a magician (a conjuror) in a raiding guild
-yes I did "old school COH into North Temple of Vesshan" etc
However, I wasn't a COH bot or gimp, character was "Redorious" on Karana server, fyi.
-COh = Call of the Hero, kind of reverse teleport spell only magicians could cast, that summoned an ally to YOU. very damned useful.
Important point: "raiding guilds", were very large groups of folk who'd do "raids", complex fights against toughest encounters in game, took a lot of time, effort and patience. it was NOT as easy as WOW, ask anyone who got to Isle 7 in Sky in the old days, it took 3 days of real play.
Things to learn:
1) Better co-operation. Far too often, D&D groups have "power trip soloists" who wander off..."rules lawyers" who cannot co-operate for group benefit etc.
In Everquest for the skilled folk & classy raiding guilds, folk had no time for idiots. Folk accepted that idiots could ruin everyone's game play for the entire night, they'd get booted out of guilds, groups etc.
When folk start using DDi, to online play, you can take note of idiots, and BAN them No need to ruin your time by putting up with idiots.
Round your game table, in 4th ed, playing to aid the group, is more important than in previous editions, IMHO. Like 1st I'd think, soloist get ganked, PDQ!! and the ability to link your powers to aid others, is a crucial aspect of 4th ed harder encounters, or just to minimize woes.
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2) Better co-operation is FUN. Rather than do "X thing for your benefit", working out a series of tactics that mesh together to do greater effect, is a fantastic bit of fun! I'll give an Everquest example:
-Point Blank AOE groups would slaughter huge numbers of enemies, by using enchanters (who could do a point blank stun), wizards (who had devastating point blank evocations), a cleric (healing and some speical abilities, like DA pulling). Often a magician (summoned elemental to kill left over enemies, lesser AOE nukes, mod rods for renewing spell power), or paladin (DA pulling, kill left overs) or bard (great pullers, abilities) would join.
Note: DA pulling, you'd buff up with the Divine Arbitration spell, makes you immune to everything for short period, they'd run into lot of enemy, pull them back to the party to get blasted, *evil laughter*
"AOE groups" were very hard to pull off, way back, but great fun, too many folk were too scared to do them but they were a riot...sometimes, fun is more important!
My point being, that you do NOT have to stick to dumb, boring "lets fight the enemy with no plan" as your strategy, in 4th ed.
Actually sit down and TALK over how you can best compliment each other, and come up with good strategies.
Many 4th ed abilities can potentially be chained in a sequence to maximize damage to the enemy, and reduce damage to you, which was simply not possible in previous editions.
A 3rd ed example would be, enemies hit with "Slow", are more susceptible to Fireball (lowered Ref save)
As DM I hate exploiting cheaters, but I love smart, sneaky tricks players come up with
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3) D&D lacks the "In your face" facts of a MMORPG, this hinders formulating new strategies, thinking about how the physical layout of an area helps or hinders etc.
When you SEE a place,it helps give ideas, think about strategies or dangers, that's not so easy to achieve form a flat map.
For example, you realize that at "Point A", there is a choke point, if you knock down "Stalagmite B", thus channeling all the enemy into a narrow front, making a fight easier.
This especially applies to true 3d enviroments like water or, air, or space. Old School everquest folk know how scary "Kedge Keep", an underwater dungeon, was, lol!!! That zone was amazingly fun and nasty, back in the day.
THus playing a computer game can help your D&D games.
Alas, not all players can afford Dwarven Forge dungeons and accessories for their game table, but, 3d objects for your game table DO make a big help.
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4) Following orders. Playing Everquest soon got you used to actually having a leader and following orders, not as a peon, but knowing your part in the game plan.
Sitting around arguing over silly stuff, wasting your precious game time, is a futile waste in D&D. Long as a plan sounds ok, go for it!
If you fail, well you know better next time
So often, I've seen players bickering over something trivial, and wasting time, or falling out, rather than swallowing their egos and either getting on with it, or listening to someone's good idea.
---------------------------------------
5) WHile I know most MMORPGS are crap for actual roleplaying, roleplaying has almost nothing to do with combat tactics, which is what I am discussing. Folk need to realize roleplaying is an art form, and the D&D combat rules don't have much to do with that, regardless of the edition!
if your group sucks at roleplaying in 3rd ed, they'll suck in 1st or 4th ed.
Roleplaying is something down to DMs and Players to work on, the most the game rules can do is provide mechanics for how good your character maybe at Diplomacy rolls etc.
Just my 2c
I've played D&D for over 20 years, played everquest for 7 years.
I'm nearly always a DM, and in EQ, I was a magician (a conjuror) in a raiding guild
-yes I did "old school COH into North Temple of Vesshan" etc
However, I wasn't a COH bot or gimp, character was "Redorious" on Karana server, fyi.-COh = Call of the Hero, kind of reverse teleport spell only magicians could cast, that summoned an ally to YOU. very damned useful.
Important point: "raiding guilds", were very large groups of folk who'd do "raids", complex fights against toughest encounters in game, took a lot of time, effort and patience. it was NOT as easy as WOW, ask anyone who got to Isle 7 in Sky in the old days, it took 3 days of real play.
Things to learn:
1) Better co-operation. Far too often, D&D groups have "power trip soloists" who wander off..."rules lawyers" who cannot co-operate for group benefit etc.
In Everquest for the skilled folk & classy raiding guilds, folk had no time for idiots. Folk accepted that idiots could ruin everyone's game play for the entire night, they'd get booted out of guilds, groups etc.
When folk start using DDi, to online play, you can take note of idiots, and BAN them
No need to ruin your time by putting up with idiots.Round your game table, in 4th ed, playing to aid the group, is more important than in previous editions, IMHO. Like 1st I'd think, soloist get ganked, PDQ!! and the ability to link your powers to aid others, is a crucial aspect of 4th ed harder encounters, or just to minimize woes.
---------------------------------------
2) Better co-operation is FUN. Rather than do "X thing for your benefit", working out a series of tactics that mesh together to do greater effect, is a fantastic bit of fun! I'll give an Everquest example:
-Point Blank AOE groups would slaughter huge numbers of enemies, by using enchanters (who could do a point blank stun), wizards (who had devastating point blank evocations), a cleric (healing and some speical abilities, like DA pulling). Often a magician (summoned elemental to kill left over enemies, lesser AOE nukes, mod rods for renewing spell power), or paladin (DA pulling, kill left overs) or bard (great pullers, abilities) would join.
Note: DA pulling, you'd buff up with the Divine Arbitration spell, makes you immune to everything for short period, they'd run into lot of enemy, pull them back to the party to get blasted, *evil laughter*
"AOE groups" were very hard to pull off, way back, but great fun, too many folk were too scared to do them but they were a riot...sometimes, fun is more important!
My point being, that you do NOT have to stick to dumb, boring "lets fight the enemy with no plan" as your strategy, in 4th ed.
Actually sit down and TALK over how you can best compliment each other, and come up with good strategies.
Many 4th ed abilities can potentially be chained in a sequence to maximize damage to the enemy, and reduce damage to you, which was simply not possible in previous editions.
A 3rd ed example would be, enemies hit with "Slow", are more susceptible to Fireball (lowered Ref save)
As DM I hate exploiting cheaters, but I love smart, sneaky tricks players come up with
---------------------------------------
3) D&D lacks the "In your face" facts of a MMORPG, this hinders formulating new strategies, thinking about how the physical layout of an area helps or hinders etc.
When you SEE a place,it helps give ideas, think about strategies or dangers, that's not so easy to achieve form a flat map.
For example, you realize that at "Point A", there is a choke point, if you knock down "Stalagmite B", thus channeling all the enemy into a narrow front, making a fight easier.
This especially applies to true 3d enviroments like water or, air, or space. Old School everquest folk know how scary "Kedge Keep", an underwater dungeon, was, lol!!! That zone was amazingly fun and nasty, back in the day.
THus playing a computer game can help your D&D games.
Alas, not all players can afford Dwarven Forge dungeons and accessories for their game table, but, 3d objects for your game table DO make a big help.
---------------------------------------
4) Following orders. Playing Everquest soon got you used to actually having a leader and following orders, not as a peon, but knowing your part in the game plan.
Sitting around arguing over silly stuff, wasting your precious game time, is a futile waste in D&D. Long as a plan sounds ok, go for it!
If you fail, well you know better next time
So often, I've seen players bickering over something trivial, and wasting time, or falling out, rather than swallowing their egos and either getting on with it, or listening to someone's good idea.
---------------------------------------
5) WHile I know most MMORPGS are crap for actual roleplaying, roleplaying has almost nothing to do with combat tactics, which is what I am discussing. Folk need to realize roleplaying is an art form, and the D&D combat rules don't have much to do with that, regardless of the edition!
if your group sucks at roleplaying in 3rd ed, they'll suck in 1st or 4th ed.
Roleplaying is something down to DMs and Players to work on, the most the game rules can do is provide mechanics for how good your character maybe at Diplomacy rolls etc.
Just my 2c
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