MnM Mooks and Innocents

[RigaMortus2]

I have yet to run an MnM game (getting close though) so I don't know exactly what the effectiveness of mooks are. As far as I can tell, they seem pretty easy to take out (all you have to do is hit them, do damage, and they are considered unconcious). How many mooks would it take to keep a group of 4 super-heroes busy for a few rounds? A smart player could create a character that can fire 3 or more attacks per round, which would more than likely take out the same number of mooks. Is there any "chart" or "guidelines" for this? Something like the Encounter Table in the DMG for D&D.

As for innocents... How hard is it to take out one of them? Are they treated as mooks as far as damage in concerned? If combat is happening, and innocents are being hit by debris (sp?), are they automatically dead? If a BBEG grabs an innocent and toss them at the super-heroes, would you calculate how much damage the innocent took or are they considered "dead"?

 

[hobgoblin]

if innocents are hit by debris that came from a action done by the heroes then you should hit them hard with it as media (think jj jameson of spider-man fan) would pounce on it like they did on the flashing at the superbawl (or whatever its called). if its by action of the bad guys then you should try to give the heroes a chance to be heroic and get the people out of there before it hits. maybe if a wall is falling give them to the end of the round or the next one so that they can divert effort to saveing them.

and most bad guys should exploit this fact about heros so that they should be trowing stuff and make stuff fall so that the heros get preoccupied while they get away or go in for the kill. stuff like that is why heroes team up.

and if all else fails then leave them knocked out and/or dieing so that the heroes can scoop them up and bring them to paramedics or similar. noone, not even the bad guys should go into instant kill. knocked out of the fight yes, but gone for ever only happens if your running a very grim game. and then it should be part of the scene for both heroes, bad guys and bystanders alike. anti-hero material.

 

[DanMcS]

I have yet to run an MnM game (getting close though) so I don't know exactly what the effectiveness of mooks are. As far as I can tell, they seem pretty easy to take out (all you have to do is hit them, do damage, and they are considered unconcious). How many mooks would it take to keep a group of 4 super-heroes busy for a few rounds? A smart player could create a character that can fire 3 or more attacks per round, which would more than likely take out the same number of mooks. Is there any "chart" or "guidelines" for this? Something like the Encounter Table in the DMG for D&D.

This table would be very hard to create- for instance, a character that sinks 6 points into power attack, cleave, and great cleave (er, takedown attack, whatever they renamed it), or a character with the area extra on an energy blast, is much more dangerous to mooks, without being any more dangerous to named adversaries, really. So you can't really do it based on power level.

Someone with a energy blast 10 (extra:area), a 30 point power, could force reflex and then damage saves over most of a battle map, which would take out most every mook it hit, where someone with super-strength 10 (extra: protection, leaping), a 60 point power, would be limited to the ones he could reach, even though his power is rather more expensive than the blaster.

So it's going to depend on your PCs. If you want to stall them for several rounds, that's going to be hard, because if there's a named bad guy standing there, they are going to (correctly) peg him as the threat, detail one or two of the party to clean up the mooks, and then concentrate fire on the main baddy.

If it's only mooks, then it's basically number of PCs * number of attacks they can pull off in a round * number of rounds you want this to take.

If you really want to delay them, say while your evil mastermind finishes his diabolical plot, then mix in some mooks and some named but lower-powered villains as the opposition. Two PL 7 or 8 villains and a passle of mooks is going to be a much more effective speedbump than two passles of mooks.

 

[The Grackle]

As for innocents... How hard is it to take out one of them? Are they treated as mooks as far as damage in concerned? If combat is happening, and innocents are being hit by debris (sp?), are they automatically dead? If a BBEG grabs an innocent and toss them at the super-heroes, would you calculate how much damage the innocent took or are they considered "dead"?

It all depends on the feel your'e going for. In most four color comicbooks there are huge super battles in crowded places and the normal people just get out of the way. If the villain throws an innocent or a huge, falling gargoyle is about to crush some old lady crossing the street, you should give the heroes enough time to swing down and save them. Usually distracting heroes w/this kinda thing is how the villains get away.

If your'e heroes aren't very heroic, or you're going for a different feel, you could let 'em die by the truckloads.

 

[RigaMortus]

Thanks for the advice. The more I read about it, it seems that MnM is more "story based" than actual rules. It seems difficult to actually "kill" a player (super-hero) and just as difficult (not to mention discouraged) to kill a villain.

In DnD you have a numerical representation of hit points, you take numerical damage, you go to -10 and you roll up a new character. In MnM it is a bit different. You either get bruised (non-letal damage) or injured (lethal damage). You are either concious, or unconcious. While you can concievably die, it seems difficult to do so.

In MnM it seems that the story should drive the rules (a wall is about to fall on innocents, ruleswise it should fall on them, storywise we give the players a chance to react). Whereas in D&D, the rules often drive the story (a lucky roll can impact what the DM WANTS to have happen, so the DM has to adjust).

 

[takyris]

In the game I ran, my biggest problem with mooks was keeping them around long enough for them to actually be worth setting up. They're great for making a hero with an area attack feel useful, as most of my mooks ran out in a cluster with blaster rifles, got off one round of shots, and then were unconscious the following round as one of my heroes took care of them.

I think the important thing with mooks is to remember that the mooks are not really the enemy. The mooks are flavor. The mooks are chances for your heroes to look cool and show off their powers in a low-risk environment. I wouldn't put too much restriction on whacking the mooks -- I mean, I wouldn't let arguably heroic PCs get away with irradiating several square blocks to take out 4 bank robbers, but anything within reason should be fine.

Or, to put it a different way:

-Mooks show up without big bad guy: They're there to let the players know that a real fight is coming up.

-Mooks show up with big bad guy: They're there to make it so that the players don't all gang up on the big bad guy at once, or so that someone who can't get to the real fight can still have fun for a round or two.

-Mooks show up with bigger guns or behind a defense screen or something: They're there as part of a more dangerous environment, either to show off some of the heroes' defensive skills or to make sure that heroes who have gotten sloppy really do take a round to deal with them.

-Mooks are surrounded by innocents or delicate art or something: They're there to give the heroes a chance to use their non-damaging powers, or to demonstrate to the players that they really ought to have non-damaging powers.

If you really really want to, you can make mooks threatening. They can have intelligent tactics, minmaxed builds, and so forth -- but that's not really the point. The villains are the ones who really must challenge the PCs. The mooks are there to make sure that the heroes look good.

 

[Keeper of Secrets]

Innocents and mooks are about the same. As far as how many will keep the heroes busy, well it depends. Assuming that the PCs are at least 10th level, I would suggest three times as many mooks as there are PCs. That will keep them busy for a few rounds, I would imagine. If they have a Joker-esque boss then he can cause trouble in the background or try and slip away.