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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tsyr" data-source="post: 1217447" data-attributes="member: 354">I think you are confusing "versatility" with "worthless abilities that will never get used".You are right. A strait fighter or a strait rogue both have stuff they won't use. A rogue might never use pick pockets, disguise, move silenetly, or hide. A fighter might never use two of his three types of armour and most of his weapons.A swashbuckler has TWICE the options that they might never use (Two of the three types of armour, PLUS the theif skills)... But doesn't really get compensated for that.You are saying that is versatility, and they should have to pay for that.Fine.I call it "needless bagage left over from a game mechanic". Potato patatoh, I suppose.Again, once more, I'm *not* saying non-superanatural! I don't think anyone has, actually. I'm saying not wire-fu. If you wanna have supernatural abilities like "Fists of Striking" and "Grapple of Steel" and stuff, fine. But tone down the wire-fu pseudo-eastern mystic crap like leap of the clouds and such.Because DnD seems to have a built in assumption that a Knight in Shining Armour is a Holy Warrior of Good, which is not in fact relevant to the archtype as a whole. Not adept, not adept, not adept. You are confusing "Suboptimal" with "not what DnD tells you to play". A hedge wizard can be a perfectly viable class. For example, in my campaign, I have a core class hedge wizard (as opposed to high wizard or wild mage). Hedge wizards have a slower spell progression, stop at level 6 spells (currently, may fine tune that a bit), and can't use metamagic (They learn spells by rote memorization, they aren't really skilled enough to change them after the fact). But they also can cast more of the lower level spells per day than a high mage, have a slightly different spell selection, get a familiar (High mages do not), have an ability that functions like "Bardic knowledge" for magic (They do not, however, get Spellcraft), get some abilities concerned with making potions and talismans, and have the ability to "book cast" certain spells (IE, just pick up the spellbook, read the spell, make some gestures, and poof). The class is balanced just fine against High Mages and Wild Mages. It's just *different*. No one is saying the Hedge Wizard should be as good as a normal wizard at magic, AND have special abilities. That doesn't mean the class as a whole cannot be balanced, though.</blockquote>

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