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<blockquote data-quote="ammulder" data-source="post: 7000619" data-attributes="member: 6864710">My vote would be to keep the DC secret.&nbsp; Either a fixed secret DC, or an opposed roll where the opposed part is rolled secretly.If a player rolls a 23 to tell whether the guard is lying, then they get a clear sign.&nbsp; &quot;They guard can't manage to look at you while he speaks, and he's fidgeting on top of that.&quot;&nbsp; There's a very small probability of error -- the guard could in fact be the master thief who's intentionally fidgeting and looking shifty -- but you the PC have received a very clear result and should be able to confident in it.&nbsp; The only chance of error is that you've misread the entire situation.If a player rolls a 6, then I'd normally give a clear sign of inability.&nbsp; &quot;The guard has quite the poker face.&nbsp; You can't read him.&quot;&nbsp; Though if I thought the situation called for humor, I might give an obviously incorrect answer that we can all laugh about because we see the &quot;6&quot; on the table.Other than the slight possibility of it not really being the guard at all, I think the uncertainty comes in for a roll of 14 or 16 or the like...&nbsp; Pretty good, and likely a success, but hard to be certain.&nbsp; &quot;You can't read the guard's face, but he's started sweating.&nbsp; Yeah, it's a warm day and he's wearing chain mail... but you didn't notice him sweating a minute ago.&quot;&nbsp; Or even an 11 if he's guarding the stables not the crown jewels.&nbsp; &quot;As the words come out of his mouth, he doesn't even seem to believe them himself.&nbsp; Though... he is pretty dim-witted, and there's ale on his breath.&nbsp; Maybe it's best not to put too much faith in anything he says.&quot;One of the things that irks me in games is when some task should be well within a character's competency but the necessary roll doesn't reflect that.&nbsp; I think a constant chance of failure that you're unable to eliminate would get to be a drag.&nbsp; There should be some things that are certain.&nbsp; (But I agree that should be closer to the exception than the rule.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ammulder, post: 7000619, member: 6864710"] My vote would be to keep the DC secret. Either a fixed secret DC, or an opposed roll where the opposed part is rolled secretly. If a player rolls a 23 to tell whether the guard is lying, then they get a clear sign. "They guard can't manage to look at you while he speaks, and he's fidgeting on top of that." There's a very small probability of error -- the guard [I]could[/I] in fact be the master thief who's intentionally fidgeting and looking shifty -- but you the PC have received a very clear result and should be able to confident in it. The only chance of error is that you've misread the entire situation. If a player rolls a 6, then I'd normally give a clear sign of inability. "The guard has quite the poker face. You can't read him." Though if I thought the situation called for humor, I might give an obviously incorrect answer that we can all laugh about because we see the "6" on the table. Other than the slight possibility of it not really being the guard at all, I think the uncertainty comes in for a roll of 14 or 16 or the like... Pretty good, and likely a success, but hard to be certain. "You can't read the guard's face, but he's started sweating. Yeah, it's a warm day and he's wearing chain mail... but you didn't notice him sweating a minute ago." Or even an 11 if he's guarding the stables not the crown jewels. "As the words come out of his mouth, he doesn't even seem to believe them himself. Though... he is pretty dim-witted, and there's ale on his breath. Maybe it's best not to put too much faith in anything he says." One of the things that irks me in games is when some task should be well within a character's competency but the necessary roll doesn't reflect that. I think a constant chance of failure that you're unable to eliminate would get to be a drag. There [I]should[/I] be some things that are certain. (But I agree that should be closer to the exception than the rule.) [/QUOTE]

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