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<blockquote data-quote="ammulder" data-source="post: 7000784" data-attributes="member: 6864710">I'm a little confused.&nbsp; If the player rolls a 23, and I follow your original suggestion and the &quot;special die&quot; comes up a 1 so then I lie to the player, does that also reduce to either 0, 50/50, or 100?&nbsp; Assuming you're going to say it doesn't, how is it different than I secretly determine a DC of 24, they roll 23, and I lie to the player?&nbsp; Either way, the player sees a really good roll, and is given a lie.In my case, the lie is because they misunderstood the situation to begin with, and they were dealing with a master rogue only posing as a guard, and thus the lie is justified.&nbsp; (If there wasn't such a setup, the 23 would have been a runaway success.)&nbsp; In your case, some dice the GM rolled in secret just ripped them off.&nbsp; Is that better?&nbsp; (I would claim, no.)In any case, the players always have their own roll to refer to.&nbsp; If it was high or low, they have a pretty good idea of success or failure (but normally not 0 or 100).&nbsp; If their roll in the middle, yeah, it may be more 50/50.&nbsp; But they can accurately gauge their own confidence in their performance!&nbsp; If they roll a 12, they may figure the DC was probably 10-ish, but not feel confident enough to take drastic action on that conclusion.&nbsp; If they roll a 6, even if I tell them the truth they're not going to act on it.&nbsp; Regardless, if they felt the social interaction was insufficiently conclusive, they might look for some other action to either support or refute their conclusion from that social interaction, or look for something besides the social interaction to support or refute their intended plan of action.&nbsp; But that's OK -- the first round of combat didn't resolve it, so you go on to a second.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ammulder, post: 7000784, member: 6864710"] I'm a little confused. If the player rolls a 23, and I follow your original suggestion and the "special die" comes up a 1 so then I lie to the player, does that also reduce to either 0, 50/50, or 100? Assuming you're going to say it doesn't, how is it different than I secretly determine a DC of 24, they roll 23, and I lie to the player? Either way, the player sees a really good roll, and is given a lie. In my case, the lie is because they misunderstood the situation to begin with, and they were dealing with a master rogue only [I]posing[/I] as a guard, and thus the lie is justified. (If there wasn't such a setup, the 23 would have been a runaway success.) In your case, some dice the GM rolled in secret just ripped them off. Is that better? (I would claim, no.) In any case, the players always have their own roll to refer to. If it was high or low, they have a pretty good idea of success or failure (but normally not 0 or 100). If their roll in the middle, yeah, it may be more 50/50. But they can accurately gauge their own confidence in their performance! If they roll a 12, they may figure the DC was probably 10-ish, but not feel confident enough to take drastic action on that conclusion. If they roll a 6, even if I tell them the truth they're not going to act on it. Regardless, if they felt the social interaction was insufficiently conclusive, they might look for some other action to either support or refute their conclusion from that social interaction, or look for something besides the social interaction to support or refute their intended plan of action. But that's OK -- the first round of combat didn't resolve it, so you go on to a second. [/QUOTE]

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