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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Harzel" data-source="post: 7007206" data-attributes="member: 6857506">I like the general tenor of the idea, but the particulars seem to be able to lead to some conditions that I don't understand at the assessment stage.  My areas of confusion are marked with '(?)'. (Possibly I have just misunderstood; if so, apologies in advance.)Here's the same situation, but with different dice rolls:The guard is indeed lying, so it's a contest between the character's Insight and the guard's Deception. The character's check result is 15 (natural 10, +5 Insight); the guard's check result is 14 (natural 14, 0 Deception modifier). On the face of it, the character detects that the guard is lying; her degree of success is 1 (15-14).Assessment = d20 + degree of success OR - degree of failureIn this case = natural 4 +1 = 5.This does not meet the threshold of 10, so the character makes an erroneous assessment of the outcome of the check: she (?) believes the guard is telling the truth even though she won the contest to 'detect' that he was lying (?)._________________Example of the PC losing the contest:The character's check result is 12 (natural 7, +5 Insight); the guard's check result is 15 (natural 15, 0 Deception modifier). On the face of it, the character has failed the contest and does not detect that the guard is lying; her degree of failure is 3 (15-12).Assessment = d20 + degree of success OR - degree of failureIn this case = natural 14 -3 = 11.This does meet the threshold of 10, so the character makes an correct assessment of the outcome of the check: she (?) believes the guard is lying even though she lost the contest to detect he was lying (?).EDIT: Ok, after thinking about it a bit more, I think that the oddity is coming from the fact that the original task (lie detection) itself concerns belief.  If the task were instead solving a puzzle, then things make more sense.  One might<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Solve the puzzle and believe that the solution is correct; or</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Solve the puzzle and believe that the solution is incorrect (this case is still a little wonky); or</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Not solve the puzzle and believe that it is not solved (no solution); or</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Not solve the puzzle, but believe that you have solved it (incorrect solution).</li> </ol></blockquote>

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