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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kae'Yoss" data-source="post: 1567911" data-attributes="member: 4134">Hm.... So you "problem" is with wizards bing able to know a thousand spells? OK, that's more or less cool with me. And I don't think that it will make the wizard too weak - especially since you limit the access, not shut it down entirely.What I thought you'd do is take the choice of spells away from the players. I know that from a couple of DM's back in 2e. I remember running around with a Wizard 7 without any 4th level spells, or a wizards without fireball (in a campaign where battle was not irrelevant). That was because the DM was very miserly with scrolls - wouln't find them, couldn't buy them.The way you'll do it is more of a limit on magic items.As a side note: you could set up some customs amongst the wizardry that they trade scrolls amongst themselves - scrolls they made themself. It could be a code of conduct: Two wizards meet, they compare their spell selections, and maybe make a deal one spell against another (or perhaps more than one). Then they'll go scribe the scrolls and exchange them. You could incorporate that into your campaign world as an unwritten law. The code may state that the scrolls have to be created by the wizards themselves, and that nothing but scrolls are to be traded (for some reason, money won't do. Can be a rule from way back - a tradition, and wizards are all for tradition)This way, wizards have to pay XP to learn new spells.As I have said: IMO this feel isn't 1e-only. I had it in 3e games, and the DM didn't set out to make a OD&D-Revival out of the campaign (In fact, that was my first 3e Campaign, and the DM - and other players - were more or less complete beginners when they started out. The DM wasn't even born yet when OD&D hit the shelves.)Well, it's a topic that has probably done to death - several times, with millions of gp worth of material components used to use true res on it, too - so I'll make it short:Level is like your age: While officially you get older only one day a year - your birthday, you actually get older all the time. But instead of working with a more accurate date, we use full years for a lot of things to make matters easier. It's an abstraction. Even though you don't grow up on your 18th/21st birth day, you are considered adult on that date, which is not really accurate, but eaysier to manage.The same is levels: While you become a better fighter with every enemy you defeat (well, more or less), you won't get a better BAB until you have enough XP to advance in a level. Even though your "real" BAB increases only from 5.999999 to 6/1 when you get the 21.000th XP, the game gives you that point all in one go, and even though you may be good enough to hit the enemy twice even with 20566 XP, you won't get the 2nd attack until you actually turn 21k. It's all an abstraction that makes stuff inaccurate, but that much easier.Well, not exactly short...You're right. But these are rewards in and of themselves.If the players want to belong somewhere and be someone, they get a stronghold, if not (or if they can attain these feelings without real estate), they don't.But if you force them to get a Stronghold, they'll get it in order to advance, not for roleplaying reasons (for some Charakter concepts - Worshippers of Farlaghn/Shaundakul for example - it is actually bad roleplaying to get a stronghold....Sorry, but that sounds like an argument for cheating in Diablo and steal other poeple's most priced items ;-) <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue    :P"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" />Besides, 3e reintroduced rule-based challenges. Want to enter a PrC? You have to reach a certain level, get some feats/skills/spells/BAB/whatever, and accomplish certain goals. And the good part, IMO: It is according to 3e's policy: tools, not rules: you can do it (and go for a PrC) or you can disregard it.Of course, you could take this 3e-tool and infuse it with the flavour of older editions in an elegant way: Enforce PrC's. There are several ways to make that, with several "intensities" - and some of them might even change other things a little back towards older editions- Cut the levels 11+ from all classes, and make the powers therein available in PrC's. You can just make it crude and introduce PrC's that have exactly the same properties the base classes have, or you specialize a little more (more in keeping with the concept of PrC's). Instead of the PrestigeCleric you'll have the undead hunter, the warpriest, the invoker. Rogues become thieves, dungeoneers and assassins. Druids beastmasters, skinwalkers, grand shamans...... Look up the Prestige versions of Paladin, Bard and Ranger in Unearthed Arcana.- Introduce generic classes (again inspiration is to be found UA, and in d20 Modern) - either the UA way with "warrior", "magic user" and "expert", or d20M-like with strong hero, fast hero etc. The rest would work like above - but you should call the classes you make of the old base classes Advanced Classes. This way, you can introduce Prestige Classes as "Tier 3" of class advancement. Put Legendary Classes, meaning epic PrC's and the like as Tier 4 in the epic regions, and you have plenty of rules the players have to "beat". Btw: the class change concept isn't taken from Pokemon where your monsters change that way, but rather from Seiken Densetsu 3 for SNES: You had 6 heroes to choose and would choose 1 main char and two supporters. There were Thief, Fighter, Grappler, Cleric, Wizard, Amazon (?). At level 18 (?), you could make a class change, where you could choose a light path and a dark path. The Thief hat the ranger as light and the ninja as dark, for example. 20 levels later, you'd get another chance to change, again light and dark, so you'd have LL, LD, DL, DD.</blockquote>

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