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<blockquote data-quote="Cadfan" data-source="post: 4596688" data-attributes="member: 40961">I think the problem people are having is that in 3e, the Shugenja was clearly a spellcaster.&nbsp; It wasn't a martial artist.&nbsp; And while it is asian in theme, that doesn't automatically make it Ki.&nbsp; Or at least it seems like it shouldn't, if the class is just a spellcaster with an unusual spell list.&nbsp; I know coming up with an exact historical definition of &quot;ki&quot; is going to be a hopeless task, because people in real life didn't believe in power sources quite the way they're envisioned in D&amp;D, but there does seem to be a difference between martial arts mythology and asian superstition about wizards and sorcerers, and this seems a fair line to draw.&nbsp;But if you want to re envision the Shugenja and add martial arts combat, but also keep it as a more spell-castery martial arts combat, I'm cool with that being ki.&nbsp;It isn't a very complex logic here- if you use throw balls of fire at people while standing around in robes, you're a spellcaster and you probably shouldn't be using Ki as its traditionally envisioned.&nbsp; Even if your asian-themed.&nbsp; But if you attack someone with a naginata, and THEN throw a ball of fire at them, we can talk.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cadfan, post: 4596688, member: 40961"] I think the problem people are having is that in 3e, the Shugenja was clearly a spellcaster. It wasn't a martial artist. And while it is asian in theme, that doesn't automatically make it Ki. Or at least it seems like it shouldn't, if the class is just a spellcaster with an unusual spell list. I know coming up with an exact historical definition of "ki" is going to be a hopeless task, because people in real life didn't believe in power sources quite the way they're envisioned in D&D, but there does seem to be a difference between martial arts mythology and asian superstition about wizards and sorcerers, and this seems a fair line to draw. But if you want to re envision the Shugenja and add martial arts combat, but also keep it as a more spell-castery martial arts combat, I'm cool with that being ki. It isn't a very complex logic here- if you use throw balls of fire at people while standing around in robes, you're a spellcaster and you probably shouldn't be using Ki as its traditionally envisioned. Even if your asian-themed. But if you attack someone with a naginata, and THEN throw a ball of fire at them, we can talk. [/QUOTE]

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