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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Coredump" data-source="post: 2297293" data-attributes="member: 6939">Almost diametrically opposed.  A claw attack uses one 'arm' and bats/scratches at an opponent. The spinning kick uses the entire body to set up tons of angular momentum in order to do damage.There is a chance you are arguing the same point.People agree (so far) that the jaguar can use paw/body/whatever to perform a monk-type-unarmed-strike.  *And* the jaguar can bite/claw with their natural weapons. Heck, they can even do them on the same round.  The issue people are having, is the concept that being a monk, will make the jaguar be much better at a straight claw attack.Now, this being the rules forum, most folks are pretty concerned about what the rules say. And the rules are pretty black and white on the subject, you can do monk attacks, and do unarmed strike damage, you can do claw/bite attacks, and do claw/bite damage; but you cannot do claw/bite attacks and do unarmed damaged. (or even augmented claw/bite damage)Now, you are not following the rules; which is okay. But now problems have developed, which awere directly caused by your house rules; so you may want to consider dropping that house rule.Now, if you  want suggestions about how to handle this, regardless of the rules.....Personally, I can see the logic of jaguar attacks getting better because of the increased knowledge from being a monk, so I have no problem with increasing their claw/bite damage.OTOH, if you want to think of it logically. If a person is trained how to be a monk by other humans, using human techniques....I don't think it is logical for them to be allowed to use these same monk abilities as a jaguar; they are just totally different body types.So logically, I could see increasing the claw/bite damage, but disallowing the monk attacks.OTOOH, it could easily be asserted that the types of attacks and techniques a monk would use, would *not* help a jaguar scratch someone better than they already can.(Furthermore, it makes no logical sense to me to allow any creature to have both class attacks *and* natural attacks, at least not the way they are handled now. But that is the gist of a separate thread.)</blockquote>

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