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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Monk flurry = TWF?
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<blockquote data-quote="Arkhandus" data-source="post: 4784315" data-attributes="member: 13966"><p>We humans, though, aren't as naturally inclined towards using our bodies as weapons compared to an animal, which has the instincts and upbringing to mold them into an effective user of their fangs, claws, or whatever. I'd be a lot more scared of an ape trying to beat on me or a gator trying to whip its tail at my face than I would be of another human being trying to punch me. We need formal training to regain the natural instincts for unarmed combat; animals don't. And Joe Shmoe isn't going to throw as good or accurate a punch as Bob the Boxer or Max the Martial Artist. So I don't have a problem with the need for proficiency (hardly any classes lack Simple Weapon Proficiency, just wizards and a few others, anyway).</p><p></p><p>But yeah, technically, monks aren't specifically called out as being proficient in unarmed strikes. But then, Wizards of the Coast never really bothered to clarify the monk's unarmed fighting ability like they should have, they always just left it vague and expected folks to understand it regardless. -_-</p><p></p><p>The full-attack action is a specific type of full-round action. Two-Weapon Fighting, Flurry of Blows, and other effects simply say that you must use a full-attack action in order to use these options. If you couldn't use more than one option with a full-attack, then you couldn't fight defensively at the same time (which would invalidate one of the benefits of the Two-Weapon Defense feat in the 3.5 core rules). Nor could you Power Attack and use Combat Expertise at the same time. Or Power Attack while TWFing. Or make a grapple attempt with one attack during a full-attack while making a trip attempt with one of the other attacks in that full-attack action. Yet you can; grapple, trip, and disarm are all valid replacements for an attack during the full-attack action, each replacing one normal attack in that action. Fighting with two weapons IS NOT a specific "special/exclusive" full-round action; it is simply one of many options that can be used during a full-attack action, like fighting defensively or Power Attacking or a Smite Evil attempt.</p><p></p><p>The reason you can't run, withdraw, charge, deliver a coup de grace, or <em>whatever</em> during a full-attack action is that those are listed as full-round actions of their own; they do not call themselves full-attack actions, nor do they say you must use the full-attack action with them. TWF and Flurry of Blows have been in 3e since the 3.0 PHB, yet neither that one nor the 3.5 PHB list them as specific Full-Round Actions in the table or other listings of the Combat chapter. That is because they are not distinct, special full-round actions of their own; they are merely options for use during a full-attack.</p><p></p><p>The quarterstaff is called out in the monk description because it needed some extra clarification given its unusual status compared to other monk weapons. They needed to explain how it worked in combination with the other rules of the Flurry of Blows, since it was normally a two-handed weapon and normally oculd be used as a double weapon.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Arkhandus, post: 4784315, member: 13966"] We humans, though, aren't as naturally inclined towards using our bodies as weapons compared to an animal, which has the instincts and upbringing to mold them into an effective user of their fangs, claws, or whatever. I'd be a lot more scared of an ape trying to beat on me or a gator trying to whip its tail at my face than I would be of another human being trying to punch me. We need formal training to regain the natural instincts for unarmed combat; animals don't. And Joe Shmoe isn't going to throw as good or accurate a punch as Bob the Boxer or Max the Martial Artist. So I don't have a problem with the need for proficiency (hardly any classes lack Simple Weapon Proficiency, just wizards and a few others, anyway). But yeah, technically, monks aren't specifically called out as being proficient in unarmed strikes. But then, Wizards of the Coast never really bothered to clarify the monk's unarmed fighting ability like they should have, they always just left it vague and expected folks to understand it regardless. -_- The full-attack action is a specific type of full-round action. Two-Weapon Fighting, Flurry of Blows, and other effects simply say that you must use a full-attack action in order to use these options. If you couldn't use more than one option with a full-attack, then you couldn't fight defensively at the same time (which would invalidate one of the benefits of the Two-Weapon Defense feat in the 3.5 core rules). Nor could you Power Attack and use Combat Expertise at the same time. Or Power Attack while TWFing. Or make a grapple attempt with one attack during a full-attack while making a trip attempt with one of the other attacks in that full-attack action. Yet you can; grapple, trip, and disarm are all valid replacements for an attack during the full-attack action, each replacing one normal attack in that action. Fighting with two weapons IS NOT a specific "special/exclusive" full-round action; it is simply one of many options that can be used during a full-attack action, like fighting defensively or Power Attacking or a Smite Evil attempt. The reason you can't run, withdraw, charge, deliver a coup de grace, or [I]whatever[/I] during a full-attack action is that those are listed as full-round actions of their own; they do not call themselves full-attack actions, nor do they say you must use the full-attack action with them. TWF and Flurry of Blows have been in 3e since the 3.0 PHB, yet neither that one nor the 3.5 PHB list them as specific Full-Round Actions in the table or other listings of the Combat chapter. That is because they are not distinct, special full-round actions of their own; they are merely options for use during a full-attack. The quarterstaff is called out in the monk description because it needed some extra clarification given its unusual status compared to other monk weapons. They needed to explain how it worked in combination with the other rules of the Flurry of Blows, since it was normally a two-handed weapon and normally oculd be used as a double weapon. [/QUOTE]
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