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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Carpe DM" data-source="post: 1771887" data-attributes="member: 677">After having done some pretty hard thinking about Fist of Raziel, I finally decided Templar was better.Don't get me wrong, Fist is a very cool class.  I obsessed about it for a long time. BUT, I think Templar lets you do some very interesting things.Here's why:1. True Believer > Servant of the Heavens. Same feat, better if you're TB.2. Mettle > Permanent Prot. from Evil.3. FoR does get more smites, BUT Weapon Specialization is a +2 damage to every swing.4. Spellcasting level for Templar at Level 20 is 10 (Templar); 3 (Paladin), with two sets of spells (including the lovely extra first level spell slots.  Mmmm, Divine Sacrifice).  Spellcasting level for Fist is always 9, which loses out on a lot of effects (say, the top level of Golden Barding, etc.).5. But the real kicker is the feats, including free Weapon Spec. from Templar and the Bonus Fighter Feats from Templar.  The extra feats allows a Monk 2 / Pal 6 / Templar 10 / Cavalier 2 Build, which ends up with:Stunning Fist (Monk)Combat Reflexes (Monk)Power Attack (Base)Weapon Focus: Longsword (Human)True Believer (3d)Divine Might (6th)Mounted Combat (9th)Weapon Specialization: Longsword (Templar 3d Free)Ride-by-Attack (Templar Bonus 4th)Spirited Charge (12th)Pain Touch (15th)Weapon: Focus -- Lance (Templar Bonus 8th)Extra Smiting (18th)This gets you Deadly Charge, extra smites from Paladin, feats, and Templar, Weapon Specialization in your longsword, and with a Ki Striking longsword and lance, you can stun and nauseate your target on a smiting deadly charge. *ahem* Yowza.6.  Final thought: the "payoff" power for FoR is pretty cool: Holy on Everything.  But that's what the Holy Sword spell does anyway -- and adds a +5 enhancement bonus.  And Templars turn out to be better spellcasters.So, just some thoughts.  I'm by no means telling folks not to take Fist of Raziel, it's the first semi-sane Paladin PrC WotC has put out.  I'm just pointing out that a closely crafted character can do more with Templar because of the three bonus feats and superior spellcasting.best,Carpe</blockquote>

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