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<blockquote data-quote="jasin" data-source="post: 4792692" data-attributes="member: 7531">The only explanation I have for this that the minmaxing skill between the master minmaxer and the casual players is minuscule.We've been playing 1st-8th, and the difference between the master minmaxer (playing a dwarf battle rager fighter) and the casual butt-kicker (playing a dark pact warlock) is larger than anything I've seen in 3E ever since I've had a late-3.0 dwarf melee cleric in the same party with a Con 8 fighter/cleric/paladin with +1 LA.I'd expect 4E multiclassing is a particularly vicious trap. Suppose you have an 18 in your primary stat and 14 in your secondary. 14 isn't great, but it's not terrible, right? They did say that the math was done so that you'd need about a 16 in your primary stat, so you can afford a -1 for your multiclass powers, which aren't your focus, right?Which puts you at -2 to attack compared to your primary class' powers, while WotC is publishing feats to bring up most people (y'know, those with 18s) up to speed since their attack values are too low. You spent a feat to swap a power which might be useful for one which will hit some... 1/3 of the time? God forbid you took an implement power if you're normally using weapons, such as a paladin trying to get some area effects from multiclassing into cleric (in which case you're also missing out on the trained skill).To me this seems much like the multiclassed cleric/paladin from 3E: if you don't know exactly what you're doing, one of the more sensible-sounding multiclasses might end up about equal to shooting yourself in the foot.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="jasin, post: 4792692, member: 7531"] The only explanation I have for this that the minmaxing skill between the master minmaxer and the casual players is minuscule. We've been playing 1st-8th, and the difference between the master minmaxer (playing a dwarf battle rager fighter) and the casual butt-kicker (playing a dark pact warlock) is larger than anything I've seen in 3E ever since I've had a late-3.0 dwarf melee cleric in the same party with a Con 8 fighter/cleric/paladin with +1 LA. I'd expect 4E multiclassing is a particularly vicious trap. Suppose you have an 18 in your primary stat and 14 in your secondary. 14 isn't great, but it's not terrible, right? They did say that the math was done so that you'd need about a 16 in your primary stat, so you can afford a -1 for your multiclass powers, which aren't your focus, right? Which puts you at -2 to attack compared to your primary class' powers, while WotC is publishing feats to bring up most people (y'know, those with 18s) up to speed since their attack values are too low. You spent a feat to swap a power which might be useful for one which will hit some... 1/3 of the time? God forbid you took an implement power if you're normally using weapons, such as a paladin trying to get some area effects from multiclassing into cleric (in which case you're also missing out on the trained skill). To me this seems much like the multiclassed cleric/paladin from 3E: if you don't know exactly what you're doing, one of the more sensible-sounding multiclasses might end up about equal to shooting yourself in the foot. [/QUOTE]

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