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<blockquote data-quote="Victim" data-source="post: 654965" data-attributes="member: 78">That's a real nice set of abilities.&nbsp; For the monk.&nbsp; Last time I checked, characters usually work in teams.&nbsp; What does a character whose main ability is not getting hurt add to group?&nbsp; Not that much.&nbsp; Once you reveal the fact that your monk doesn't do damage with a flurry of misses, his AC isn't that important as smart enemies switch to an easier target that actually hurts them - like the rogue.&nbsp; Many times, I've seen people post that their Monk rocks, because with their saves, movement they were the only character to survive the tough battle and avoid a TPK.&nbsp; When I see that, I always wonder if there would have nearly been a TPK in the first place had the monk instead been a cleric, rogue, etc.&nbsp; Without extreme twinking, a monk will have a hard time contributing in combat.&nbsp; While their out of combat abilities are useful, I wouldn't consider them to be any better than other Moderate attack and HD classes.&nbsp; Considering the potential abilities of high level characters, I see neither problems with the Monk on paper or in practice.&nbsp; In fact, one of the worst high level characters I've seen was a Monk.&nbsp; An attack series starting at +17 results in lots of misses against 15th level enemies.&nbsp; Remember that when looking at on paper performance, the PHB abilities need to be looked at in the context of DMG wealth and items along with the probable opponents.&nbsp; Before the DMG's release, monks certainly looked overpowered.&nbsp; d20 damage!!!&nbsp; Compared to a fighter's 1d10?&nbsp; But when you consider that, based on the wealth charts, a +5 sword is weaker than usual for a 20th leve fighter, the tendency of a fighter to have a higher strength since they have fewer essential stats, that many monk abilities can be easily replaced by spells or magic items - Fly gives Monk speed and immunity to falling - things look much more even.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Victim, post: 654965, member: 78"] [b][/b] That's a real nice set of abilities. For the monk. Last time I checked, characters usually work in teams. What does a character whose main ability is not getting hurt add to group? Not that much. Once you reveal the fact that your monk doesn't do damage with a flurry of misses, his AC isn't that important as smart enemies switch to an easier target that actually hurts them - like the rogue. Many times, I've seen people post that their Monk rocks, because with their saves, movement they were the only character to survive the tough battle and avoid a TPK. When I see that, I always wonder if there would have nearly been a TPK in the first place had the monk instead been a cleric, rogue, etc. Without extreme twinking, a monk will have a hard time contributing in combat. While their out of combat abilities are useful, I wouldn't consider them to be any better than other Moderate attack and HD classes. Considering the potential abilities of high level characters, I see neither problems with the Monk on paper or in practice. In fact, one of the worst high level characters I've seen was a Monk. An attack series starting at +17 results in lots of misses against 15th level enemies. Remember that when looking at on paper performance, the PHB abilities need to be looked at in the context of DMG wealth and items along with the probable opponents. Before the DMG's release, monks certainly looked overpowered. d20 damage!!! Compared to a fighter's 1d10? But when you consider that, based on the wealth charts, a +5 sword is weaker than usual for a 20th leve fighter, the tendency of a fighter to have a higher strength since they have fewer essential stats, that many monk abilities can be easily replaced by spells or magic items - Fly gives Monk speed and immunity to falling - things look much more even. [/QUOTE]

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