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Message: <blockquote data-quote="faria" data-source="post: 6838632" data-attributes="member: 6780042">If we drop Ranger (Colossus Slayer and Dueling style aren't worth 3 levels IMO), then we can reach minimum potential at level 7: Monk 5/Rogue 1/Warlock 1. Or even as early as level 4 with Monk 2/Rogue 1/Warlock 1, but you won't have Extra Attack yet. Still, this is a level that most players can realistically reach and to see this build in action.If we decide to build around Monk 6 or 8 without Ranger, this opens up a few more builds. Let's explore them:#9 Monk 6/Rogue 11/Warlock 3 is the highest numbers I can see. Rogue sneaks another ASI in at level 10, giving us 4 ASIs and a whopping 6 Sneak Attack Dice! We also get Reliable Talent, making this a very nice out-of-combat build as well. Let's crunch the numbers. DPSR: 2d6+5+2d6+12d6 + 2d6+5+2d6 = 80DPR: 1d6+5+1d6+6d6 + 1d6+5+1d6 + 1d6+5+1d6 + 1d6+5+1d6 = 69#10 Monk 6/Rogue 10/Warlock 4 drops a Sneak Attack die for a 5th ASI. Again, a fair trade, but 5 ASIs is a lot. Not a big drop in damage though.DPSR: 2d6+5+2d6+10d6 + 2d6+5+2d6 = 73DPR: 1d6+5+1d6+5d6 + 1d6+5+1d6 + 1d6+5+1d6 + 1d6+5+1d6 = 65.5#11 Monk 6/Rogue 12/Warlock 2. Another way to get the 5th ASI is to trade your pet familiar (and thus Sneak Attacks after the surprise round) and 2nd level slots. I genuinely don't like this idea (familiars are fun...), but I'm curious to see what happens to the damage.DPSR: 2d6+5+2d6+12d6 + 2d6+5+2d6 = 80DPR: 1d6+5+1d6 + 1d6+5+1d6 + 1d6+5+1d6 + 1d6+5+1d6 = 48. Awful.Burning through Ki with this character idea makes Monk 8 more appealing than Monk 6 IMO:#12 Monk 8/Rogue 9/Warlock 3. Is a 5th ASI worth 2 more Ki? Damage is the same, and you still have 4 ASIs, so I think so.DPSR: 2d6+5+2d6+10d6 + 2d6+5+2d6 = 73DPR: 1d6+5+1d6+5d6 + 1d6+5+1d6 + 1d6+5+1d6 + 1d6+5+1d6 = 65.5#13 Monk 8/Rogue 8/Warlock 4 for 5 ASIs again. It might be overkill, but all you give up for it is 1 Sneak Attack die and Infiltration Expertise (I've never seen that feature come up in any of my games).DPSR: 2d6+5+2d6+8d6 + 2d6+5+2d6 = 66DPR: 1d6+5+1d6+4d6 + 1d6+5+1d6 + 1d6+5+1d6 + 1d6+5+1d6 = 62#14 Monk 8/Rogue 7/Warlock 5 gives up 1 ASI (still have 4 though) to gain the One With Shadows Invocation (or whichever you want) and more spells, including 3rd level slots!DPSR: 2d6+5+2d6+8d6 + 2d6+5+2d6 = 66DPR: 1d6+5+1d6+4d6 + 1d6+5+1d6 + 1d6+5+1d6 + 1d6+5+1d6 = 62The first thing that's evident is that the burst numbers are higher because we can take more levels of Rogue than before. But again, we want to focus on consistent DoT because the burst here isn't significantly higher (straight Rogues would do so much more burst, especially level 17 Assassins). Build #14 is my favorite build, with #9 pretty close behind. On paper, #9 is much better (an extra ASI, Reliable Talent, and 2 extra Sneak Attack dice), but in reality, this build is so heavily dependent on Flurry of Blows to be good. Every non-surprise round that you can't FoB, you're losing 24 DPR. That's 35-39% of your damage!!! You're gonna burn through that Ki and start sucking (doing 45 DPR instead of 69 DPR) if you can't get a short rest in. It depends on your group I guess. My group doesn't rest after every single fight. I'd say, on average, my group gets in 2 fights at 5 rounds of combat each between short rests. That's 2 surprise rounds + 8 non-surprise rounds. You only need Ki for non-surprise rounds, so 8 Ki average is what I need in my current group. YMMV</blockquote>

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