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Monk: The Past, Present, and Questionable Future of an Iconic Class
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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9071551" data-attributes="member: 7030563"><p>Hamburgers don't have the nutritional profile of Brussel sprouts thpough and never will. Almost every table has a guy who put up great rolls. You are acting like that never happens. It happens all the time, and when it does you can play any class and be good at anything.</p><p></p><p>Keep in mind as you read this reply your statement is the Monk can "never" be good at the social pillar. That is just patently false .... even on point buy.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That is a minority of campaigns I think and again "never" is untrue.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Agree on Dex and Wisdom but they do NOT "need" a high constitution and as a matter of fact I have never played one with higher than a 13 Constitution in a point-buy game. When I have played point buy, assuming standard +1/+2 it is typically 16 Dex, 16 or 17 Wisdom, 12 Con, and either a 12 or 14 in Strength or Charisma. But if you play a Half-Elf you can come in with two 16s and a 14 Charisma on 21 points and still have enough for a 10 con and a 12 Strength, and then you can get two different Charisma skils through your race in addition to one or two from class and background!</p><p></p><p>Usually on point buy I play with a 12 in CON, but I have played a Monk with a 10 Constitution and was fine. I have played every class except Barbarian and Druid with a 10 Con and they were fine.</p><p></p><p>Almost no one "needs" a high Constitution in 5E, because at the end of the day 5E is pretty darn EASY. Ironically, I have never had a character of any kind with a 9 or 10 Constitution die. I have lost PCs although that is rare, but I have never lost a character that would have survived with a higher constitution.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not constitution. You are just wrong. If you are on point buy you are going to need to make a choice between Strength or Charisma. You are right about that much.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>First off if a player has great rolls he is not going to have a low anything and that happens .... often. Second a Monk can take one or more face skills with almost every background.</p><p></p><p>You have to actually try hard to build a Monk that can't take proficiency in a Charisma skill. Folk Hero is the only background in the PHB that does not offer at least one Charisma skill for a Monk RAW. Pick any other background from the PHB or the vast majority from any other source and you can get at least one of Persuasion, Intimidation or Deception on your Monk ... and often both. That is before you design your own custom background!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Rogues, Rangers, Bards, Warlocks, Paladins and Sorcerers are inherently better because they have expertise or their other abilities mesh, but nothing makes the other classes besides these 6 inherently better than a Monk at Face skills.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That is 4 of 12 classes and pushing Charisma will not keep them ahead of proficiency .... and that is if there is one in the party.</p><p></p><p>The best faces do not actually include Paladins, Warlocks or Sorcerers though. They are second tier (although ahead of the Monk). The best are Bards and Fey Wanderer Rangers, the latter because they can add both Wisdom and Charisma along with their expertise. These two are really in a class of their own when it comes to face skills (excuse the pun).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The last Monk I played was not terrible. The Wizard I am playing right now is far worse than my last Monk was. The last Rogue I played was worse than my last Monk too.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>They are good at running, and with athletics proficiency they are pretty good at most athletic and acrobatic things.</p><p></p><p>You are acting like the proficiency bonus does not count, it does.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I do use acrobatics for Tumble quite a bit on both Wizards and Monks at low levels with low strength. Usually without any proficiency in it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You are usually pretty good at it, unless you for some reason did not take proficiency in Athletics. I would not say "particularly" good at every level, but OK at low levels even with an 8 strength, and really good at high levels. If you start with a 14 strength, which is easy to do on point buy, you should be really good at all levels.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 9071551, member: 7030563"] Hamburgers don't have the nutritional profile of Brussel sprouts thpough and never will. Almost every table has a guy who put up great rolls. You are acting like that never happens. It happens all the time, and when it does you can play any class and be good at anything. Keep in mind as you read this reply your statement is the Monk can "never" be good at the social pillar. That is just patently false .... even on point buy. That is a minority of campaigns I think and again "never" is untrue. Agree on Dex and Wisdom but they do NOT "need" a high constitution and as a matter of fact I have never played one with higher than a 13 Constitution in a point-buy game. When I have played point buy, assuming standard +1/+2 it is typically 16 Dex, 16 or 17 Wisdom, 12 Con, and either a 12 or 14 in Strength or Charisma. But if you play a Half-Elf you can come in with two 16s and a 14 Charisma on 21 points and still have enough for a 10 con and a 12 Strength, and then you can get two different Charisma skils through your race in addition to one or two from class and background! Usually on point buy I play with a 12 in CON, but I have played a Monk with a 10 Constitution and was fine. I have played every class except Barbarian and Druid with a 10 Con and they were fine. Almost no one "needs" a high Constitution in 5E, because at the end of the day 5E is pretty darn EASY. Ironically, I have never had a character of any kind with a 9 or 10 Constitution die. I have lost PCs although that is rare, but I have never lost a character that would have survived with a higher constitution. Not constitution. You are just wrong. If you are on point buy you are going to need to make a choice between Strength or Charisma. You are right about that much. First off if a player has great rolls he is not going to have a low anything and that happens .... often. Second a Monk can take one or more face skills with almost every background. You have to actually try hard to build a Monk that can't take proficiency in a Charisma skill. Folk Hero is the only background in the PHB that does not offer at least one Charisma skill for a Monk RAW. Pick any other background from the PHB or the vast majority from any other source and you can get at least one of Persuasion, Intimidation or Deception on your Monk ... and often both. That is before you design your own custom background! Rogues, Rangers, Bards, Warlocks, Paladins and Sorcerers are inherently better because they have expertise or their other abilities mesh, but nothing makes the other classes besides these 6 inherently better than a Monk at Face skills. That is 4 of 12 classes and pushing Charisma will not keep them ahead of proficiency .... and that is if there is one in the party. The best faces do not actually include Paladins, Warlocks or Sorcerers though. They are second tier (although ahead of the Monk). The best are Bards and Fey Wanderer Rangers, the latter because they can add both Wisdom and Charisma along with their expertise. These two are really in a class of their own when it comes to face skills (excuse the pun). The last Monk I played was not terrible. The Wizard I am playing right now is far worse than my last Monk was. The last Rogue I played was worse than my last Monk too. They are good at running, and with athletics proficiency they are pretty good at most athletic and acrobatic things. You are acting like the proficiency bonus does not count, it does. I do use acrobatics for Tumble quite a bit on both Wizards and Monks at low levels with low strength. Usually without any proficiency in it. You are usually pretty good at it, unless you for some reason did not take proficiency in Athletics. I would not say "particularly" good at every level, but OK at low levels even with an 8 strength, and really good at high levels. If you start with a 14 strength, which is easy to do on point buy, you should be really good at all levels. [/QUOTE]
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