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<blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 7633353" data-attributes="member: 2629">Most monks start off at 16 (Wis 16/Dex 16) with point buy, a few with rolled stats will start higher, and a good number will start around 15.&nbsp; By level 8, almost all will be at 17 or above.It is lovely at level 1, but considering how fast you move through the low levels, it is not a significant benefit.Regardless: A lot of shield utilizing PCs will hit 18 at level 1.&nbsp; Heavy armor PCs will hit 17 without a shield before level 4, generally, due to Splint Armor.&nbsp; Melee PCs with a minor focus on AC tend to hit AC 20 at higher levels.&nbsp; As such, this primary benefit of the Tortle tends to be outclassed by mid-levels.&nbsp; Nobody is forcing you to play outside RAW (it certainly is not necessary), but treating the overlap of the Monk and Tortle AC abilities as a non-issue is ignoring how it is perceived by most people that look at them.&nbsp; It is a factor that will discourage the combination.As there are multiple abilities of the monk that are reliant on wisdom and dexterity, I'd consider it rare that a monk would take a lot of feats, even if AC was not an issue.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="jgsugden, post: 7633353, member: 2629"] Most monks start off at 16 (Wis 16/Dex 16) with point buy, a few with rolled stats will start higher, and a good number will start around 15. By level 8, almost all will be at 17 or above. It is lovely at level 1, but considering how fast you move through the low levels, it is not a significant benefit. Regardless: A lot of shield utilizing PCs will hit 18 at level 1. Heavy armor PCs will hit 17 without a shield before level 4, generally, due to Splint Armor. Melee PCs with a minor focus on AC tend to hit AC 20 at higher levels. As such, this primary benefit of the Tortle tends to be outclassed by mid-levels. Nobody is forcing you to play outside RAW (it certainly is not necessary), but treating the overlap of the Monk and Tortle AC abilities as a non-issue is ignoring how it is perceived by most people that look at them. It is a factor that will discourage the combination. As there are multiple abilities of the monk that are reliant on wisdom and dexterity, I'd consider it rare that a monk would take a lot of feats, even if AC was not an issue. [/QUOTE]

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