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<blockquote data-quote="Swarmkeeper" data-source="post: 7633743" data-attributes="member: 6921763">Ah, while I did veer off course with the half-orc example, it was revealing as I now think I see why our observations differ.&nbsp; It seems you are known to your regular players as a DM who offers concessions at chargen.&nbsp; And perhaps, and I'm guessing here, you inform new players at your table you offer concessions for &quot;wasted abilities&quot; before (or while) they come up with a character concept.&nbsp; Don't get me wrong, I don't think this is bad - in fact, it's nice that you do that for your players and the table has fun with it.&nbsp; Fun is the ultimate goal, after all.Our experiences are similar in that I see the majority of players going for a 16 or higher in their prime stat, too.&nbsp; The same is true for &quot;wasted abilities&quot;, however.&nbsp;So, for your experience - again I'm extrapolating from what you've said - you have set up a self-fulfilling prophecy.&nbsp; You offer concessions to players for &quot;wasted abilities&quot;, so they seek those concessions out.&nbsp; Hence your observation of &quot;all of those people&quot; and &quot;majority of players&quot;.&nbsp; Methinks that is &quot;majority of players&quot; in your games and not in the whole D&amp;D player universe.&nbsp; My hunch (and, like you, I have no data to back this up, only personal and second hand experience) is that many players play the concept they want.&nbsp; They may or may not ask for concessions for said &quot;wasted abilities&quot; and a DM may or may not offer concessions.&nbsp; The player plays the concept either way most of the time because they think it will be fun.&nbsp; Concessions therefore do not necessarily correlate with more diverse player options.&nbsp; The majority of my experience is the DM not offering concessions at chargen (me as DM, my DM when I'm a player, other DMs I've spoken with) and players create diverse characters that they like.&nbsp; And... we have fun, too!This.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Swarmkeeper, post: 7633743, member: 6921763"] Ah, while I did veer off course with the half-orc example, it was revealing as I now think I see why our observations differ. It seems you are known to your regular players as a DM who offers concessions at chargen. And perhaps, and I'm guessing here, you inform new players at your table you offer concessions for "wasted abilities" before (or while) they come up with a character concept. Don't get me wrong, I don't think this is bad - in fact, it's nice that you do that for your players and the table has fun with it. Fun is the ultimate goal, after all. Our experiences are similar in that I see the majority of players going for a 16 or higher in their prime stat, too. The same is true for "wasted abilities", however. So, for your experience - again I'm extrapolating from what you've said - you have set up a self-fulfilling prophecy. You offer concessions to players for "wasted abilities", so they seek those concessions out. Hence your observation of "all of those people" and "majority of players". Methinks that is "majority of players" [I]in your games[/I] and not in the whole D&D player universe. My hunch (and, like you, I have no data to back this up, only personal and second hand experience) is that many players play the concept they want. They may or may not ask for concessions for said "wasted abilities" and a DM may or may not offer concessions. The player plays the concept either way most of the time because they think it will be fun. Concessions therefore do not necessarily correlate with more diverse player options. The majority of [I]my experience[/I] is the DM not offering concessions at chargen (me as DM, my DM when I'm a player, other DMs I've spoken with) and players create diverse characters that they like. And... we have fun, too! This. [/QUOTE]

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