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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Arkhandus" data-source="post: 3687675" data-attributes="member: 13966">Still too many goodies, and you've actually made it kind of worse.  Those custom Knockout feats are very strong, very much so the Improved one which is probably broken (and far superior to the standard monk's Quivering Palm).  Your removal of the d10 hit dice just balanced out the greater skills and a bit of the Reflex save advantage of the monk over a fighter.  The restrictions on Counterattack are good but it's still a strong ability regardless (not broken perhaps, but strong).The feat replacements are somehow worse than the previous feats you had in their place....DR 10/-?  Better than a Barbarian's?  When the standard monk just gets useless DR 20/magic that protects him from nothing but mooks roughly 16-19 levels lower than himself?Overwhelming Critical may've been an Epic feat, but it was a cruddy one.  Your custom feat replacement is much stronger.  Epic Dodge was a potent Epic feat, but not too awesome considering that epic foes will be attacking several times per round and likely hit more than once.  DR 10/- is more generally-useful, though admittedly bit weaker overall.  Shouldn't be giving an Epic or Epic-equivalent feat at 20th-level, anyway.The abilities your version of the Monk gives up are:Purity of Body, Ki Strike, Wholeness of Body, Diamond Body, Diamond Soul, Timeless Body, Abundant Step, Quivering Palm, Tongue of the Sun and Moon, and Empty Body.The other stuff your Monk gives up is:Good Will save progression and a few near-useless weapon proficiencies.What he gains over a standard Monk:Intimidate as a class skill, no alignment or multiclass restrictions, full Base Attack Bonus, 7 or 8 additional feats, 2-3 extra class features that range from slightly to absurdly stronger than feats.What class features does he retain?Full unarmed combat ability (except for Ki Strike and Quivering Palm, which makes it far more imperative for him to pick up an overpriced Amulet of Mighty Fists as soon as possible, which'll take quite a while to be able to afford).  Unarmored AC bonuses.  Fast Movement.  3 bonus feats besides the aforementioned ones and Improved Unarmed Strike.  Evasion.  Still Mind.  Slow Fall.  Improved Evasion.  Perfect Self.  And strong Reflex saves, which a Fighter also lacks.Note that you only removed Supernatural class features and a few other things; you never mentioned removal of the others that are mystical in source/effect but not Supernatural; Fast Movement and Perfect Self.Regardless.....  At the very least your Monk has better Reflex saves, Evasion and Improved Evasion, Slow Fall, Still Mind, unarmored and unarmored combat prowess, Counterattack, Improved Counterattack, and a total of 11 or 12 feats (so about the same as a Fighter, though with less choice and only geared towards unarmed combat).  So in place of a bit of feat-choice flexibility on the Fighter's part, and use of normal armor and weapons which are somewhat better than the monkish unarmed/armored fighting ability, the character is much tougher against magic-users/psionicists/monsters, and able to attack much more rapidly (counterattack and flurry of blows).  They're also much tougher or much more offensively capable at 20th-level, depending on their feat choices and the capstone ability/feat.Verdict: Still too strong, though kind of close to Fighters.  Just might be roughly balanced against Barbarians but I dunno (the 20th-level ability is a real problem).</blockquote>

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