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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 8054455" data-attributes="member: 5889">So the recent Monk thread had me wondering about Treantmonk's baseline. First of all, I wanted to check it from a scientific standpoint (peer review is important!). But I also wanted to see for myself how the monk looked when I thought about my own campaigns.The Numbers are below. Here are the assumptions I used.1) Monk starts with 16 dex. The warlock starts with Cha 16. Monk is using a quarterstaff.2) The warlock takes agonizing blast (Cha to damage) at 2nd level.3) Both the monk and warlock increase their attack stat at level 4. At 8th we will assume the monk bumps wisdom, and the warlock bumps Cha. People commonly say that Monks are MAD have to split their stat bumps to be effective, so we will do that here to see how it fares.EDIT: Note in my original numbers warlocks had an 18 cha to start. Feedback was this was a poor assumption for a baseline, so the numbers were adjusted to have 16 cha as the starting point.4) At level 5 I give both classes a magic item (while technically optional, I have never played a table that didn't give characters a basic weapon magic item by 5th level). Warlocks get a +1 rod of the pact keeper (+1 to attacks only). Monk gets a +1 quarterstaff (which does not affect unarmed strikes).5) I assumed a 65% hit rate when no additional attack bonuses were applied and the stat was 16. This means that applying more attack stat and attack bonuses from magic items increased the to-hit rate beyond 65%.6) The % Improvement column is for the Monk, so positive numbers is how much more DPR the monk is doing.7) I look at levels 1-10, because WOTC research shows these are the actual levels that people play at (which also is similar to the levels my table plays at). Therefore, I don't consider any data passed 10th level to be of relevance to the discussion.8) First table is at base, second table is full power (hex and flurry). Third table is hex but no flurry.Summary1) At base (no hex, no flurry), the monk shows superior DPR at all levels, a good amount in fact.2) With full power (hex and flurry), the monk's DPR is remains superior at all levels.3) At levels 2-4 (which are common levels for many tables), the monk is almost 50% over the warlock in DPR.4) At low levels (1-4), a warlock basically has to use hex to keep up with a monk. A monk can ignore flurry and stay close to the baseline. Once at 5th, the monk needs flurry to keep up with hex.5) The only real debate point then is how often the Monk can flurry vs the Warlock can hex. This comes down to rounds/combat, frequency of short rest, how often concentration is disrupted or warlocks wants to use other concentration spells, etc.6) Honestly, these numbers seem good enough that I don't think the Monk has trouble "making the baseline". He seems quite capable of putting out equal or superior damage to a warlock.[Spoiler]<table style='width: 100%'><tr><td>Level</td><td>Warlock</td><td>Monk</td><td>%Improvement</td></tr><tr><td>1 </td><td>3.85 </td><td>8.8 </td><td>128.57% </td></tr><tr><td>2 </td><td>5.8 </td><td>8.8 </td><td>51.72% </td></tr><tr><td>3 </td><td>5.8 </td><td>8.8 </td><td>51.72% </td></tr><tr><td>4 </td><td>6.925 </td><td>10.85 </td><td>56.68% </td></tr><tr><td>5 </td><td>14.8 </td><td>20.125 </td><td>35.98% </td></tr><tr><td>6 </td><td>14.8 </td><td>20.125 </td><td>35.98% </td></tr><tr><td>7 </td><td>14.8 </td><td>20.125 </td><td>35.98% </td></tr><tr><td>8 </td><td>17.35 </td><td>20.125 </td><td>15.99% </td></tr><tr><td>9 </td><td>17.35 </td><td>20.125 </td><td>15.99% </td></tr><tr><td>10 </td><td>17.35 </td><td>20.125 </td><td>15.99% </td></tr><tr><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Level</td><td>Hex</td><td>Flurry</td><td>%Improvement</td></tr><tr><td>1 </td><td>6.3 </td><td>8.8 </td><td>39.68% </td></tr><tr><td>2 </td><td>8.25 </td><td>12.5 </td><td>51.52% </td></tr><tr><td>3 </td><td>8.25 </td><td>12.5 </td><td>51.52% </td></tr><tr><td>4 </td><td>9.55 </td><td>15.525 </td><td>62.57% </td></tr><tr><td>5 </td><td>20.4 </td><td>25.55 </td><td>25.25% </td></tr><tr><td>6 </td><td>20.4 </td><td>25.55 </td><td>25.25% </td></tr><tr><td>7 </td><td>20.4 </td><td>25.55 </td><td>25.25% </td></tr><tr><td>8 </td><td>23.3 </td><td>25.55 </td><td>9.66% </td></tr><tr><td>9 </td><td>23.3 </td><td>25.55 </td><td>9.66% </td></tr><tr><td>10 </td><td>23.3 </td><td>25.55 </td><td>9.66% </td></tr><tr><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Level</td><td>Hex</td><td>Monk</td><td>%Improvement</td></tr><tr><td>1 </td><td>6.3 </td><td>8.8 </td><td>39.68% </td></tr><tr><td>2 </td><td>8.25 </td><td>8.8 </td><td>6.67% </td></tr><tr><td>3 </td><td>8.25 </td><td>8.8 </td><td>6.67% </td></tr><tr><td>4 </td><td>9.55 </td><td>10.85 </td><td>13.61% </td></tr><tr><td>5 </td><td>20.4 </td><td>20.125 </td><td>-1.35% </td></tr><tr><td>6 </td><td>20.4 </td><td>20.125 </td><td>-1.35% </td></tr><tr><td>7 </td><td>20.4 </td><td>20.125 </td><td>-1.35% </td></tr><tr><td>8 </td><td>23.3 </td><td>20.125 </td><td>-13.63% </td></tr><tr><td>9 </td><td>23.3 </td><td>20.125 </td><td>-13.63% </td></tr><tr><td>10 </td><td>23.3 </td><td>20.125 </td><td>-13.63% </td></tr></table>[/Spoiler]</blockquote>

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