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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Klaus" data-source="post: 2836559" data-attributes="member: 607">Thing is, if you're trying to make a front-line monk, you'll want Strength, not Wisdom (a Wisdom 12 already gives you as much protection as a suit of padded armor, Wisodm 14 matches leather, putting you on par with a rogue). Since you're favoring Strength, you'll want Improved Grapple (very few Fighters take this and its prerequisite, Imprived Unarmed Strike), offsetting the BAB difference (and possibly overcoming it, allowing even a flurry of grapples). A 1st level fighter with 15 Str has a grapple modifier of +3. A 1st level monk that goes the melee route will have 15 Str and Imp Grapple for a net modifier of +6.And if you're putting a rogue into the mix, it's just an unfair, 2-on-1 fight. Now put the rogue on the monk's side and you'll see how a monk can contribute.Does a monk suffer from MAD? Yes, it benefits from higher stats on multiple abilities. Can it be circumvented? Sure can. A melee monk with Str 15, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 8 works just fine. Make him a half-orc and you're in Str 17, Int 8, Cha 6 territory. This monk will have a grapple modifier of +7 at 1st level. The average fighter will have a touch AC of 11 and a grapple modifier of +3 (+5 if half-orc, too), so our monk will hit with an 8 on a d20 (10 if he flurries) and win a grapple check 70% or the time (55% if the fighter is also a half-orc). The fighter would waste a round or two making grapple checks to draw and use a light weapon, during which the monk can cause up to 4d6+12 points of damage (flurry of grapples for 2 rounds).</blockquote>

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