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<blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 2838834" data-attributes="member: 5889">I ran the math a while ago, against most typical ACs a party will face the monks extra attacks don't hold up against a better attack bonus. Now against very crappy mooks, summoned creatures, etc that have very low ACs, the monk can get it done. But against creatures that &quot;matter&quot;, the monk is normally doing worse.I think I agree with the assessement a few points ago, the monk is normally sacrificing offense or defense to such an extreme that he can't do either. You can have a pretty nice AC, but you'll never hit. You can hit pretty well, but your a big bloody punching bag.I guess its a question of how much is enough...the monk gets a whole bunch of other benefits besides his fighting, so how close to a fighter should he become before its too good?I also think that while flurry is a unique and interesting idea, it compounds the problem. The rogue is another example of a creature that has high offense and low defense. The difference is that the rogue can deliver his offense with a single attack. The rogue can move into flanking and deliver a powerful sneak attack. He can even combine it with spring attack. He can also add sneak attack damage through ranged weapons. The monk has to deliver full round actions to really add to combat, which clashes with his high mobility.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Stalker0, post: 2838834, member: 5889"] I ran the math a while ago, against most typical ACs a party will face the monks extra attacks don't hold up against a better attack bonus. Now against very crappy mooks, summoned creatures, etc that have very low ACs, the monk can get it done. But against creatures that "matter", the monk is normally doing worse. I think I agree with the assessement a few points ago, the monk is normally sacrificing offense or defense to such an extreme that he can't do either. You can have a pretty nice AC, but you'll never hit. You can hit pretty well, but your a big bloody punching bag. I guess its a question of how much is enough...the monk gets a whole bunch of other benefits besides his fighting, so how close to a fighter should he become before its too good? I also think that while flurry is a unique and interesting idea, it compounds the problem. The rogue is another example of a creature that has high offense and low defense. The difference is that the rogue can deliver his offense with a single attack. The rogue can move into flanking and deliver a powerful sneak attack. He can even combine it with spring attack. He can also add sneak attack damage through ranged weapons. The monk has to deliver full round actions to really add to combat, which clashes with his high mobility. [/QUOTE]

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