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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cactot" data-source="post: 2852098" data-attributes="member: 13700">alternativesWait a minute, lets re-break down the math18 str fighter with weapon focus using a greatsword at lvl 1:2d6 + 6dmg, BAB+6 x1, avg dmg per swing 13Vs AC:14: 65%, avg 8.4516: 55%, avg 7.1518: 45%, avg 5,8520: 35%, avg 4.5530: 5%,  avg 0.6516str monk with weapon focus:1d6 + 3dmg, BAB +2 x2, avg dmg per swing 6.5vs AC:14: 40%, avg 5.216: 30%, avg 3.9 18: 20%, avg 2.620: 10%, avg 1.330: 5%,  avg 0.6516str modified monk with full bab and only one flurry attack with -1 and weapon focus:1d6 + 3dmg, bab +4 x2, avg dmg per swing 6.5vs AC:14: 50%, avg 6.516: 40%, avg 5.218: 30%, avg 3.920: 20%, avg 2.630: 5%, avg 0.65So even REDUCING the flurry penalties as well as giving them full BAB, they still come out behind a fighter.  A more realistic scenario would have the stats arrayed more like this:28 point buyFTR18 str10 dex14 con10 int10 wis8 cha2d6+6, +5babMonk14 str14 dex14 con12 int14 wis8  cha1d6+2 dmg, +0 babdropping dex/wis would make the monk nearly unable to fight without magical assistance, as the ac would be low enough that a kobold would pose a serious threat.  In all but the highest of point buy games giving monks a single flurry with no penalty along with 1/1 bab progression would not be unbalancing.  As they would still do less damage than the fighter, with a worse AC. (that would give them 1d6+2, with a +3bab)sad fact is, you can get more out of 5 levels of shou diciple then you can with many more levels of monk.  Light armor (woo celestial chainmail +5), any weapon you can use (woo cold iron flaming, shocking, freezing, acidic, halberd +1), full BAB and no MAD, all you need is dex and str.My suggestion as to fixing the monk:Remove:still mindpurity of bodywholeness of bodydiamond bodydiamond soultimeless bodytongue of sun and moonempty bodyperfect selfskill: diplomacyquivering palmslow fallAdd:  :any 3 or more of these:full babfaster AC bonus progression (maybe 1+0.5*lvl, or 1+0.33*lvl)psionic power progressionlarger variety of weapons usableunarmed attacks bypass DR-cold iron/silverAll of them wouldnt be too unbalanced unless they were given too many psionic powers.  Maybe progression that gets them lvl 1-3 psi warrior powers, knowing 2-3 of each level with a limited amount of power points.  They would still likely have low AC in normal point builds, and similar if a bit lower average damage compared to fighters, seeing as they still have MAD, due to their extreme need for wis/dex in order to stay alvieOf course this wouldnt be balanced in very high power games (36+points) but seeing as i would wager that most people play low to medium power games (25-32 point) thats what it should be balanced toward.  In any case, they would still be on average less powerful than druids/clerics.  With the new phb 2 opportunties for fighters, they would probably be fairly balanced versus fighters, as they have gained lots of potential.</blockquote>

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