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<blockquote data-quote="Cactot" data-source="post: 2852891" data-attributes="member: 13700">because in all but the highest point buy campaigns or the highest magic campaigns, a monk would be utterly gimping himself by spending 16 points initially on strength.&nbsp; As his armor class is entirely dependent on his stats, whereas a fighter can get quite a significant AC with a 10 in dex.&nbsp; I would love to see an example of a 28 point buy human monk with an 18str at level one that is not completely gimp.&nbsp; Fact is that fighters both have more options, and more effective options, than monks.&nbsp; You can compare it to a 2 weapon fighter, but without prestige classes they are pretty weak, unless they use a 2h weapon and armor spikes.&nbsp; The reason why it is not a good comparison is that monks are pigeon holed into that fighting style, while fighters have viable and effective alternative to twf.&nbsp; To add insult to injury, because of the huge quantiy of feats available to them, they are less dependent on taking the human race, so can further the effective difference with +str or +con races.&nbsp; Oh yeah, and fighters are way more flexible as far as multi classing goes also.Half orc fighter (twf)18 str16 dex10 con10 int10 wis6 chaget full plate + buckler, and the AC is 20 vs a single target, should be acheiveable by lvl 2 or so.use 2h weapon and armor spikes.&nbsp; get twf, itwf, robillars gambit, double hit, 2 weapon rend, combat reflexes, weapon focus, weapon spec, weapon mastery (total of +3atk/+4dmg with the weapon in question)as leveling put 1 point into dex at lvl 4, the rest into strhalf orc monk18 str14 dex10 con10 int14 wis6 chafear the 14ac that will stay that way until serious magic comes into play.&nbsp; cant use any of the really neat twf feats (double hit, 2 weapon rend) without putting all his level attribute points (and feats) into it.&nbsp; Oh yeah, will still do less damage, only doing strx1 and with a much lesser chance to hit.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cactot, post: 2852891, member: 13700"] because in all but the highest point buy campaigns or the highest magic campaigns, a monk would be utterly gimping himself by spending 16 points initially on strength. As his armor class is entirely dependent on his stats, whereas a fighter can get quite a significant AC with a 10 in dex. I would love to see an example of a 28 point buy human monk with an 18str at level one that is not completely gimp. Fact is that fighters both have more options, and more effective options, than monks. You can compare it to a 2 weapon fighter, but without prestige classes they are pretty weak, unless they use a 2h weapon and armor spikes. The reason why it is not a good comparison is that monks are pigeon holed into that fighting style, while fighters have viable and effective alternative to twf. To add insult to injury, because of the huge quantiy of feats available to them, they are less dependent on taking the human race, so can further the effective difference with +str or +con races. Oh yeah, and fighters are way more flexible as far as multi classing goes also. Half orc fighter (twf) 18 str 16 dex 10 con 10 int 10 wis 6 cha get full plate + buckler, and the AC is 20 vs a single target, should be acheiveable by lvl 2 or so. use 2h weapon and armor spikes. get twf, itwf, robillars gambit, double hit, 2 weapon rend, combat reflexes, weapon focus, weapon spec, weapon mastery (total of +3atk/+4dmg with the weapon in question) as leveling put 1 point into dex at lvl 4, the rest into str half orc monk 18 str 14 dex 10 con 10 int 14 wis 6 cha fear the 14ac that will stay that way until serious magic comes into play. cant use any of the really neat twf feats (double hit, 2 weapon rend) without putting all his level attribute points (and feats) into it. Oh yeah, will still do less damage, only doing strx1 and with a much lesser chance to hit. [/QUOTE]

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