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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cactot" data-source="post: 2853514" data-attributes="member: 13700">Okay we can even compare a normal twf fighter to a monk, say at lvl 12.feats:weapon focus, weapon spec, gweapon focus, gweapon spec, weapon mastery, twf, itwf, gtwf, two weapon rend, double hit, robillars gambit, combat reflexeswith the following equip, +4str/dex items, celestial armor, +3 amulet of natural armor, +3 ring of protection, 2 x rapier +1 +shocking +flamingbest race would be wood elf +2str/dex, -2con/int/cha32 point buy24str 18 base +2 from leveling +4 item23dex 18 base +1 from leveling +4 item12con10int10wis6chaat lvl 12 his attack pattern would be (12 base, +7str, +4wf,gwf,wm, +1magic weapon, -2twf)22/22/17/17/12/12damage for for the mainhand per swing:1d6 +7 str +6 spec +1d6 electricity +1d6 fire (avg 23.5)offhand per swing:1d6 +3 str +6 spec +1d6 electricity +1d6 fire (avg 19.5)for each time both weapons hit, you do another:1d6 +10 damage (avg 13.5) from two weapon rendAC 10 base, +6 dex +8 armor +3 natural armor +3 ring of protection  (AC 30)some cr 12-14 monster ac'sbeholder ac2095/95(to hit both 90%) , 85/85 (to hit both 72%), 60/60 (to hit both 36%)first set of attacks avg 40.8 + rend  12.12nd set of attacks avg 36.5 + rend 9.723rd set of attacks avg 25.8 + rend 4.86avg/round 129.78average AoO dmg: 52.9 (which occurs every time the monster swings at him)gelugon ac28%70/70(to hit both 49%), 45/45 (to hit both 20%), 20/20 (to hit both 4%)"" 30.1 + 6.6 rend"" 19.3 + 2.7 rend"" 8.6 + .5 rendavg/round 67.8average AoO dmg: 36.7 (which occurs every time the monster swings at him)lvl 12 monksame racewith the following equip, +4wis/dex/str items, bracers of armor +4, +3 ring of protection, +3 amulet of mighty fists20str +4item, 16base25dex +3 levels, +4item, 18base 12con20wis +4item 16base6int6chaAC 29 weapon focus, combat reflexes, (improved natural attack feat), weapon finesse, ??attacks +9bab, +7dex, +1 weapon focus, +3 amulet of mighty fists20, 20, 20, 15damage per swing 3d6 + 5 + 3(amulet of mighty fists?) .  average of 18.5 per swing, even if he hit with all 4 attacks 100% of the time, he would only be doing an average of 74dmg per round.  Only slightly higher than the fighters ACTUAL average versus the high AC baddie.  Actual damage would drop to about 40 damage per round.  The suboptimal build for a fighter would do roughly 60% MORE damage, an optimal bulid... more than that.</blockquote>

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