Monkey grip + Large 2-handed weapon = Reach?

[evilbob]

I cannot find anything in any of the books or FAQs about using a 2-handed weapon that is sized larger than your character, because this is specifically impossible. However, the Monkey Grip feat in Complete Warrior throws all this off, as it allows you to use a larger weapon with the same amount of effort, specifically including "a larger two-handed weapon in two hands." Besides the -2 penalty to use the weapon and the increased damage from a larger weapon, would the large weapon also have an increased reach? In other words, would a "non-reach" large weapon have a reach of 10' and a "reach" large weapon have a reach of 20'?

The reach of an "enlarged" creature increases, but that seems to be more a function of the creature size and not the weapon size. On the other hand, a large two-handed weapon is a large object, and it would make practical sense that it should reach further. Ideas?

 

[CrimsonTemplar]

Nope, no reach...unless it's a Large 'Reach' Weapon (i.e. - Longspear, Glaive, Guisarme, Ranseur, etc.).

Think of it this way...even with the feat you still have to 'choke up' on it a bit to use it effectively.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A Small or Medium creature wielding a Reach weapon doubles their reach, but cannot strike adjacent targets.

A Large creature wielding a Reach weapon of the appropriate size doubles his reach, striking 15 and 20 feet but not 5 or 10.

So theoretically, a Medium creature wielding a Large Reach weapon is still covered by the rule - his reach is doubled, and he cannot strike adjacent targets. The same goes for a Medium creature wielding a Small Reach weapon.

However, a Large creature wielding a Medium Reach weapon is not wielding a Reach weapon of the appropriate size, and thus his reach is unaffected.

If you don't like this, check out Savage Species - it has a variant rule for reach weapons, where instead of doubling reach, a reach weapon grants a modifier to reach. Converting to 3.5 would give something like:

A Small or Medium reach weapon shifts a creature's threatened area outward by 5'.

A Large reach weapon shifts the threatened area by 10'.

A Huge reach weapon shifts it by 15'.

So a Medium creature Monkey Gripping a Large longspear would threaten 15', but not 5' or 10'.

A Large creature wielding a Medium longspear would threaten 10' and 15', but not 5'.

-Hyp.

 

[Tatsukun]

No reach because the 10’ reach is not caused by the “large size” of the weapon. It is caused by the “Large size” of the creature wielding it.

If a large creature wields a medium sized greatsword, he still gets reach because HE is large. Inversely, if a medium creature wields a large size greatsword he doesn’t get reach because HE is medium size.

-Tatsu

 

[Li Shenron]

In other words, would a "non-reach" large weapon have a reach of 10' and a "reach" large weapon have a reach of 20'?

...

On the other hand, a large two-handed weapon is a large object, and it would make practical sense that it should reach further. Ideas?

I would say that if a weapon is not listed as a "Reach" weapon, it simply doesn't increase anyone's reach.

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

What a perfect spot to post this question:

Paks is a Medium human w/ Johtunblud feat (for any opposed rolls, consider to be size large) wielding a medium spiked chain in 2 hands.

No problem, she threatens 5' and 10' with her chain.

Now she drinks a potion of enlarge. Paks becomes a Large Human wielding a large spiked chain.

Still not much of a problem, she threatens 5', 10', 15' and 20', right?

Now she takes her feat, Monkey Grip, and draws a second spiked chain, becoming a large human wielding two large spiked chains, one in each hand.

Does she sill threaten at 5' to 20' or is it shorter?

 

[evilbob]

Now she takes her feat, Monkey Grip, and draws a second spiked chain, becoming a large human wielding two large spiked chains, one in each hand.

Does she sill threaten at 5' to 20' or is it shorter?

Well, according to everyone's response so far (thanks, everyone), a reach weapon is still a reach weapon and Monkey Grip doesn't change that, so I'm thinking 5 to 20. (With appropriate 2-handed fighting penalties.)

I like the Savage Species idea, but at the same time it seems complex. Also, the original thought behind this question was really more about having something like a large scythe or greatsword wielded by a medium creature, and whether or not that made their reach 10'. (So far, everyone seems to be saying no.)

Here's an even trickier situation, though: an Epic character with the Wield Oversized Weapon feat (treat weapon as one size smaller and "lighter" for you, also from Complete Warrior) and Monkey Grip. Would a medium creature wielding a huge greatsword have a reach of 10', and would a medium creature with a huge spiked chain threaten 5 to 20'? When does "bigger" mean "more reach?"

As a side bar, does a larger bow have a greater range? (I'm guessing not.)

 

[CRGreathouse]

Does she sill threaten at 5' to 20' or is it shorter?

Nothing restricts her reach, so it's still 5'-20'.

 

[Pax]

If the chains didn't increase in size, they no longer have reach - as they're not of the appropriate size for the wielder.

If the chains did increase in size, then they cannot be wielded in a single hand, period - but the one chain that the character COULD wield, would retain the Reach ability.

 

[silentspace]

By the rules, only "reach" weapons have reach.

"Non-reach" don't have reach.

The reach of "non-reach" weapons is the creature's "Natural Reach", which for medium size creatures is 5'

Try not to think too much about it. Its an abstract game with abstract rules!