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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Victim" data-source="post: 2961130" data-attributes="member: 78">Yeah, because that would clearly show natural strengths and weakness of the classes, rather than displaying the consequences of the initial conditions of the fight and a few individuals' skills at builds, metabuilds, and tactics .   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />  Perhaps I'm still disillusioned from an old Fighter vs Barbarian matchup:  the fighter was a mounted archer, and the barbarian was a gnome who relied almost exlusively on Use Magic Device.  Or how about the duel you tried to use to test out that dark elf counterpart to a bladesinger, which was decided entirely by one side's inability to deal with 3.0 darkness effects?  Monks are definitely good at mage killing through grapple, stunning, and Tumble to bypass the wizard's protectors at lower levels.  At higher levels, they become rather less effective at that role given the additional tricks available to wizards.  However, they also gain far more defense against spellcasters and in general at those levels.  They get SR, poison immunity, the saving throw gap continues to widen, etc.  They're not immune to magic so a powerful wizard can still take them out, but in a battlefield in which many low power effects are being tossed around liberally, a monk is pretty secure.  Since a monk's offense starts to pick up via Greater Flurry and their ability to afford all the different stat items to take advantage of their MAD at around the same time their mage killing ability drops off, I wouldn't work too much about the Monks.The problem with sundering or disarming a cleric's holy symbol(s):<img src="http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ph35_gallery/PHB35_PG31_WEB.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></blockquote>

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