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<blockquote data-quote="Mephista" data-source="post: 9072783" data-attributes="member: 6786252">I tried to explain that the mechanics all derive from the core class fantasy of the paladin.&nbsp; Everything starts with the class fantasy.&nbsp; Everything.Umm... what part of holy warrior implies spellcasting, smites, auras?&nbsp;&nbsp; The &quot;HOLY&quot; part.&nbsp; Like, 99% of pictures of gods, holy people or holy objects I'm familiar with have an aura with them.&nbsp; Holy people/places/things having an aura of purity or protection is a super common idea. Holy implies miracles, which is the cleric's divine spellcasting. Literally every spell a divine spellcaster actually casts is a prayer to the gods, angels, whatever to intercede for them.&nbsp;&nbsp; Smiting....&nbsp; we've all heard of gods smiting evil.&nbsp; A paladin's healing?&nbsp; Its literally called Lay-on-Hands, a super common practice in at least Christianity - I don't know if other religions have a tradition of laying of hands for the sick, but certainly its a real world tradition associated with religion and holiness.Like... I'm not sure how you can even claim that auras, smites, healing and the magic of gods is unrelated to a warrior-priest.&nbsp; This has nothing to do with D&amp;D.&nbsp; Its everywhere in real world myths, religions and fantasy stories, including ones unconnected to anything derived from D&amp;D or LotR, such as urban fantasy based on gothic literature.Its seriously mind boggling for me.&nbsp; No, you can't justify all the same mechanics for the monk.&nbsp; Because they fundamentally represent different things and different fantasies.&nbsp;&nbsp; Stunning Strike has its origins in the fantasy of striking pressure points to disable an opponent, not channeling the power of a divinity to wound a foe. At the end of the day, paladin's mechanics are fun, but they are not the whole reason the class is fun to play.&nbsp; The lore and class fantasy are just as important.&nbsp; The most important thing for a class is its vibe.&nbsp; If it doesn't vibe with someone, then its not a fun class.The monk class has a number of issues. Simply saying &quot;Oh, just do a thing like you did with paladin&quot; is easy to say, but its not really relevant, because the paladin's chasis does not really lend itself easily to what the monk needs to do to live up to its class fantasy.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mephista, post: 9072783, member: 6786252"] I tried to explain that the mechanics all derive from the core class fantasy of the paladin. Everything starts with the class fantasy. Everything. Umm... what part of holy warrior implies spellcasting, smites, auras? The "HOLY" part. Like, 99% of pictures of gods, holy people or holy objects I'm familiar with have an aura with them. Holy people/places/things having an aura of purity or protection is a super common idea. Holy implies miracles, which is the cleric's divine spellcasting. Literally every spell a divine spellcaster actually casts is a prayer to the gods, angels, whatever to intercede for them. Smiting.... we've all heard of gods smiting evil. A paladin's healing? Its literally called Lay-on-Hands, a super common practice in at least Christianity - I don't know if other religions have a tradition of laying of hands for the sick, but certainly its a real world tradition associated with religion and holiness. Like... I'm not sure how you can even claim that auras, smites, healing and the magic of gods is unrelated to a warrior-priest. This has nothing to do with D&D. Its everywhere in real world myths, religions and fantasy stories, including ones unconnected to anything derived from D&D or LotR, such as urban fantasy based on gothic literature. Its seriously mind boggling for me. No, you can't justify all the same mechanics for the monk. Because they fundamentally represent different things and different fantasies. Stunning Strike has its origins in the fantasy of striking pressure points to disable an opponent, not channeling the power of a divinity to wound a foe. At the end of the day, paladin's mechanics are fun, but they are not the whole reason the class is fun to play. The lore and class fantasy are just as important. The most important thing for a class is its vibe. If it doesn't vibe with someone, then its not a fun class. The monk class has a number of issues. Simply saying "Oh, just do a thing like you did with paladin" is easy to say, but its not really relevant, because the paladin's chasis does not really lend itself easily to what the monk needs to do to live up to its class fantasy. [/QUOTE]

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